Another case of relapse/CFS after "slacking off" vitamin C

[ofonorow]

Hi Owen,

I spoke on the phone with you when your first article on your friend with corotid artery surgery was published in the Townsend Newsletter. How many years ago was that?

I started on 10 grams/day of Vitamin C, and took Proline and Lysine that was then available from the makers of Emergen-C, I think. About 10 years ago, a scan of the calcium component of plaque of my arteries was essentially "0". I was then 65 years old.

I learned a great deal talking on the phone with you at that time, and have recommended Pauling's work, and your website ever since. It is amazing that you got your ND license, and have written books, and put together such an extensive, informative and professional website.

You may or may not remember me. But I - and many others on the planet - have been grateful for your dedication to informing the public.

Now I have a personal need for a suggestion from you: I am 76, and believe I had a mild heart attack two weeks ago. I have had what is called Chronic Fatigue Syndrome for 32 years. I am a holistic psychological counselor, and still see a few clients, but the CFS has been my major challenge, with many ups and downs precipitated by stress. The origin of the CFS was exposure to mercury vapor from having 16 fillings taken out in a 2 week period - with no protection - 32 years ago.

I got sloppy and did not continue an adequate dose of Vitamin C (EmergenC) in recent years. I do take a protocol of supplements for the mitochondrial insufficiency underlying CFS. (Acetyl L-Carnitine, Co-Q-10 Ubiqunol, D-Ribose, and others.)

I will have the first imaging tests this coming Monday, Aug. 6, to determine how much damage was done to my heart muscle, if any; and the condition of the blood vessels around my heart. I am concerned because the "stress test" involves the infusion of a medicine (Lexiscan) that dilates the blood vessels, plus the injection of a radioactive dye "tracer", and the side
effects of that dilation sound uncomfortable, to say the least. I believe I will go ahead with it at this time, because I will have a conventional imaging test result that should be informational. I will also get an echogram done on Monday.

Now to my request. I ordered 3 containers of Cardo-C today from you. The rep suggested I email you regarding dosing - possibly 2 or 3 scoops/day rather than 1 scoop.

I have always been confidant about cardio-vascular health because this Pauling material was out there - made widely available by you. The fact that I got diverted from keeping my focus on this aspect of my health goes waaay beyond annoying to me! I can't believe I let this slide.

Second request: I am grateful to have this chance to reconnect with you. I have ordered Practicing Medicine ...., as well. Hopefully, everything will arrive Saturday, August 3. I doubt any conventional cardiologist will be open to new learning. If by any miracle you know of one in Austin, TX where I live, please let me know.

I am excited to take another step toward my healing, and look forward to hearing from you. If a short phone call with you is possible some afternoon before my Monday stress test (1 pm - 5 pm) I would be very grateful and respectful of your time. If it suits you better to email your
recommendations, that is fine too.

With much appreciation for what you have done.

Sandy

Hi Sandy,
Yes I do remember you, but not specific details.

Your story - relapse after feeling cured and slacking vitamin C - is repeated over and over. In fact that is one of the reasons I wrote the book. But a good dose of vitamin C (and I would include livonlabs.com Lypo-C - especially if there is time before the scan) can still resolve your non calcium issues in a short amount of time. Take as much as you can tolerate as often as you can! (Remember http://orthomed.com/titrate.htm)

There is a very short and powerful new book devoted to telling the word about how well Pauling's therapy works. It is easy to read and can provide "proof" for you doctor and friends. See this topic for details of Dave Leakes new book: http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=10059

This book has given us the idea to finally start a documentary on patients that have recovered thanks to Linus Pauling (and Matthias Rath.) From your story, perhaps YOU might be interested in becoming part of the story? Please let me know.

Now as far as CFS - I have recently become an unwitting expert in adrenal fatigue, which I would bet a considerable amount of money is at the heart of your problem at your age! (Pardon the pun.) And it is EASILY fixed, but finding a doctor who knows or will is very hard. Rather than write a book here, the authoritative landmark book on the subject has been written.

SAFE USES OF CORTISOL, 3rd Edition, William Mck Jefferies.
http://www.amazon.com/Safe-Uses-Cortisol-William-Jefferies/dp/0398075018/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1343912901&sr=1-1&keywords=safe+uses+of+cortisol+jeffries

After you read the book, I think you may understand how resting your adrenals with "sub replacement" dosages can work wonders for all sorts of conditions. We have covered this issue "at length" at this forum, and if you have more questions, please send me email.

[Johnwen]

Those book's are excellent choices but there is a book that gets into a very comprehensive look at this problem. When I read it I found it didn't apply to me but it gave me a clearer approach to those who I see and am more able to recognize their problems. I generally don't endorse books but in your case and background this one may help you also.

http://www.amazon.com/Adrenal-Fatigue-C ... 1890572152

[ofonorow]

johnwen - i have and read Wilson's book and it has value (and will be forever in his debt for referring to Jefferies book!). However, his material on Vitamin C (and vitamin E) is faulty, in the mold of most chiropractors! This cast a doubt over all the material, and I did write him offering to provide better information, but he never wrote back. He also does not recommend cortisol replacement, which I can understand (as a chiropractor, he cannot prescribe it) but from my own experience, there is no other effective and safe way to over-come adrenal fatigue. (I am still down to about half the "replacement" dose - or 4 mg methypredizone daily. With remarkably few symptoms!)

[Johnwen]

I agree with you about his recs on V-C. However when he said he made up his own blend of C for adrenal fatigue kind of says it all.$$$$
I also differ with him on blood thinners and C. Everyone I have seen on thinners who take over 2000 mg. of C a day have to take higher dosages of thinners to compensate for the healing effects of the C mostly with warfarin.
Glad to hear your down to 4 on pred. without symptoms. I can breath a little easier now.

[ofonorow]

In a message dated 8/7/2012 1:39:43 P.M. Central Daylight Time, Sandy writes:

Dear Owen,

I just got my computer fixed after being unable to use email for a week. Thankfully Thomas has been a great intermediary.

I am thrilled to hear you are planning to make a documentary, and would love to be a part of it. And, yes, Leake's book is fantastic. Also yours.

I put off the pharmaceutical form of the stress test until Friday, Aug. 10. (I have significant family pressure to get it done, or would put it off indefinitely.)

I also will get started with the book on the safe use of cortisol. I presently take 7 1/2 to 10 mg of Cortef/day, and it has made all the difference. However, I have hope to find out how much is really enough, and to do whatever else is necessary to get more energy back. I will have to chelate out the rest of the mercury in my system before the damage it is still doing can be stopped. And then I plan to take further steps to heal the "so called" CFS.

You suggested I start on the Lyposome-C now, and I will. I presume the Cardio-C and Lypo-C together to bowel tolerance is the way to use the two. Let me know if otherwise. I've been taking the Cardio-C every 4 hours, and have not reached bowel tolerance yet.

Sandy Enright

Thomas is great!

We'll keep you informed about the documentary. If you know of others who have used Pauling's therapy (even failures), or can think of funding sources, let us know.

Okay, so you are taking cortisol already!? How long have you been taking it?? I'm not sure of the conversion from cortef to cortisol (thought cortef was the IV form?) but the issue isn't "enough" - it is making sure that you aren't taking too much. You want to rest your adrenals, not turn them off. The best dosage is usually around 1/2 of what the adrenals would naturally output, unless they are really damaged and not producing any cortisol. In general, as you will learn from Jefferies, you can not go past the natural max output of the adrenals for any length of time without problems.

So you haven't reach bowel tolerance yet. Interesting! You obviously require more vitamin C. Let me know when you do reach your limit (and Lypo-C should not count as it is almost 100% absorbed.)

We should discuss the mercury separately, but as you chelate - the vitamin C will help at least neutralize the mercury as it is pushed out of tissues making it less dangerous. Always high dose vitamin C! I believe it does more, and I posted a protocol at our forum that I think is safe and makes a lot of sense.

http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=9515&p=27651&hilit=Fonorow#p27651.

[ofonorow]

Dear Owen,

Your forum discussion on mercury detoxing is awesome!

Regarding your question about my use of Cortef (generic is Hydrocort), it is a 5 mg pill, and I take 7 1/2 to 10 mg daily. I started this in late January to treat a CFS relapse; about 6 months ago. My doctor set the dose by muscle testing. ( ! ) I've worked with him for years, and he's very leading edge. I believe his estimate of the accuracy of his muscle testing to be 80%, to be about right. I am supposed to have my cortisol levels tested, and will do so when I get beyond my immediate challenge, the stress test I am doing this Friday, Aug. 10. Thanks for the reminder about not taking too much adrenal support. I remember having learned this some years back.

I have increased the frequency and dose of Cardio-C, as a result of your comment below regarding my not yet reaching bowel tolerance.

Wish me luck on the stress test; conventional cardiology, and conventional medicine in general, are probably several hundred years behind! So many well-intentioned people; sad.

Thanks for the great information.

Sandy

From a quick google search, cortef oral is hydrocortisone (or cortisol) thus a full replacement dose is 35-40 mg daily. Assuming this is correct, then for someone with CFS, you can safely take up to 35-40 mg for short periods, and can take a 15 to 20 mg (half replacement dosage) for extended periods. (Again, this is assuming cortef dosage is equivalent to hydrocortisone.) Again, reading the Jefferies book is important, and you can see why you might want to go higher to relieve your symptoms, up to the replacement dosage if necessary, and then back off as your own adrenals regain their strength. (I am currently on a half-replacement dosage, and have started playing tennis again. I feel very good. (age 58).

Nothing wrong with taking more of your vitamin C as Cardio-C - but, the better option is adding ascorbic acid or sodium ascorbate powder to the cardio-C drink, as you don't know how much you'll require to achieve bowel tolerance. And don't forget the Lypo-C (livonlabs.com).

[ofonorow]

Hi Owen,

Thanks for this information; yes, oral Cortef is hydrocortisone. The generic name is Hydrocort. As far as I know, the dose is equivalent. I now really have to have my cortisol level tested. I'll get Jefferies' book right away. The idea of taking a half-replacement dose, which would be twice what I'm taking now, and having more energy, is very exciting.

I've been busy this past week grilling the technician in the nuclear stress test department twice on the phone, so that I would be willing to do that test.

It turns out the frightening array of side effects listed is accurate for the old chemical they used to use, but not for the Lexiscan they use now. There are very few side effects from Lexiscan. I had only a mild light-headedness for a few seconds from the vasodilation, and some fatigue for about 30 minutes.

I assume you are suggesting adding ascorbic acid or sodium ascorbate to the Cardio-C in order to increase ascorbic acid intake quickly and inexpensively while getting to bowel tolerance. Is that right? I thought at this point I would need to keep ingesting plenty of Lysine and Proline along with the ascorbic acid. I am presently taking 1 1/2 scoops of Cardio-C every three waking hours. I have been taking naps since the Friday stress test, and so I have had to miss some doses of Cardio-C, but I believe I reached bowel tolerance at 9 grams on Friday. Would I be getting too much Lysine and Proline if I continued the Cardio-C at around 9 grams/day?

Sandy

Sandy,

It will be difficult to test cortisol - because you Cortef counts (as cortisol) and stopping for even a day if your adrenals are weak is very hard. After you read Jefferies, you'll see that testing is not all that important if you are on the half replacement dose or less. That dose will not shut your adrenals down, and will in fact rest them for "emergencies."

Sounds like the same cardiac stress test I had last summer (my issue turned out to be adrenal fatigue/low cortisol, which was not recognized by scores of specialists!). Anyway, the next morning after the test, the cardiologist came to my hospital room and told me and my wife that I should "come back to see him in 20 years." He explained that if any part of the heart is dark - the dye doesn't get to that part of the heart indicating a blockage. My heart (thank you Linus Pauling!) was "bright" all over.

At this point, I don't think you can take too much lysine and proline, but I would gradually lower the dosage, when you do, and keep the vitamin C at the highest levels you can tolerate.

Owen