Another Pauling Therapy Failure? CHF/Pacemaker

[ofonorow]

Dear Owen,

Surprise surpise.

After being on Pauling diet at 7 to 8 grams since 05/11/12 and using Sodium Ascorbate as my Vit C source, I ended up in the Hospital with Congestive Heart failure on 07/30/12, and that after under going Life Line Screening on July 12 and being given an all is well, accept My BLOOD Sodium level was over way over the limit causing my body to retain FAR TOO much FLUID.

Also I am now the proud owner of a DEFIBRILLATOR inserted in my chest.

It appears their screening does little or nothing to detect BODY FLUID LEVELS. It also appears the advice I was given to use SODIUM ASCORBATE was also not the best. I have switched to LYPO-SPHERIC vitamin C, which appears to be much safer.

I am now told that my enlarged heart is operating at 20% of capacity. I would like some help from A PAULING based Cardiologist, because the one I have is not educated in the PAULING System. I am home now and pretty well back to a normal life style but unsure I am doing the right things.

I continue on with the PAULING Regimen, but I do not know if there is any known evidence that improvement and to what degree is possible in my condition.

Any information would be greatly appreciated

Abram

Very sorry to hear of your predicament and experience. I hope you don't mind if we post your email anonymously and quiz you trying to learn as much as we can?

First, Lypo-C is a very good choice, but as Pauling's very first case study points out, the amino acid lysine is a requirement (in addition to vitamin C) for reversal of heart disease.

For the record, after the clean bill of health on July 12, did you change any thing?

Who advised sodium ascorbate? (We generally recommend ascorbic acid, perhaps with some sodium ascorbate to lessen the acidity of large doses).

Now looking at your customer record, I see you started around Mid May 2012, but I see that we only sold you one jar of Cardio-C, (which would provide a therapeutic dosage for about 2 weeks). What products did you try after that, and how much lysine did they contain?

Where did you get the sodium ascorbate?

How old are you, how long have you had heart disease, what drugs are you on, and how much vitamin C prior to last April?

According to CoQ10 expert and author Steven Sinatra, CHF is considered a CoQ10 deficiency "disease" in Europe. It is also known that many drugs, but especially the statin cholesterol-lowering drugs, deplete or interfere with the body's production of CoQ10. (here is the reference
to the he drug ads in Canada which warn Canadian doctors about this. The FDA does not require that US doctors be warned. http://naturesperfectstatin.com/warn.htm)

If I were in your shoes, I would increase my coq10 supplementation from 600 to 1200 mg daily, perhaps 200-400 mg with meals. (Must have fat in digestive tract (bile) for CoQ10 to be absorbed.) You can reduce to a maintenance level after the CHF is gone. I note that you have my book. I would try to follow all the recommendations in Chapter 7. http://www.practicingmedicinewithoutalicense.com/protocol/ They are all made for a reason.

As far as salt levels, it seems doubtful that the sodium ascorbate is responsible, without knowing the dosage. I would like to know how much you were taking. More likely is a problem with your adrenal hormones, caused by your body adjusting to low salt intake.

Dr. David Brownstein discovered literature showing that in people with high blood pressure, salt restriction increased the chance of a heart attack over 450%! The reason was a hormone imbalance as the body attempts to keep what little salt it can. After all, the salt content of your blood stream is about the same as the ocean, or should be.

There are educated people at this forum who know more about electrolyte imbalance, and the causes. High salt might indicate another common problem, adrenal fatigue, but I'll wait to see what our professor thinks.

As far as proof/evidence, I don't know David Leake, but he just wrote a pretty convincing book or what happened to him (after 17 years of heart disease) after he found our web site,
http://www.amazon.com/Patented-Heart-Disease-Cure-Works/dp/1475122926/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1344610839&sr=8-1&keywords=david+leake+heart+disease

We started a topic on his book, which includes links to his medical records, http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=10059

[ofonorow]

Thank you Owen for all your help. Let me respond to some of your inquiries.

First, along with all my Vit C 4 to 5 Grams per day along with 8.5 Grams of lysine and 1000 MG of Proline. The sodium Ascorbate was recommended on A call to the VitaminCfoundaation after I informed some one on the phone I am acorbic acid intolerant back in May. At that point I had already used up I jar of Cardio- C. after complaining about the price, I was sent another jar free, which I have not opened.

I then ordered all my POWDERS from NOW FOODS on the internet, including a 3 lb jar of sodium Ascorbate and powder L-Lysine and Proline caps. Digoxin .25 MG and Furosemide 20 MG now increased to 40 MG due to heart failure.

I also take 500 MG of CoQ10, 1000 IU of Vit-E, 1000 MG of Vit A,10,000 IU 700 MG of Potassium Chelate, Coreg 12.2 Dailey, vit D-3, Slow Niacin 250 MG. /I stopped the Lescol XL in May as well as the Altace I had been taking and my BP is very good. It appears in the 117 to 135 range over 60 with a pulse of 60. and blood oxygen level in the high 97, 98 range.

The hospital has added AMIODARONE 200 MG. Also added 20 MG tabs RIVAROXABAN which I am opposed to and have not taken to date. While on the Pauling regimen, I do not believe I need blood thinners ??????

I am 77 years of age. I had a heart attach in 1994, blockage with nothing other
than a roto-ruter procedure. No stents no bypass. After recovery I began running
a mile every morn, and I did that until 2001 When I had my first but serious bout
with congestive heart failure. I had no further problems until about March of 2012
when I began having some chest pain. After going on the Pauling regimen I had no
further chest pain even up to and including this episode. However I was experiencing
frequente shortness of breath increasing in severity until I had this latest bout of heart
failure. My body was overloaded with fluid causing VERY SERIOUS ABDOMINAL AND
lower bowl pain. I should have seen it coming but was not paying attention. I now have a defibrillator installed. I am doing well, no problems, and pretty well back to normal.

Hope I have hit all the questions as much as possible. If you require more please let me know.

I hope the 700 mg of potassium is a misprint, seem like way to much to me.

Your vitamin C intake is low, and as a rule should at least equal the lysine intake, but most people find themselves able to tolerate about double their lysine intake. If I didn't already mention it, you can use this table/formula to determine your minimum vitamin C dosage.
http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=7593

Professor johnwen (the author) recommends doubling this "minimum" intake computed for therapeutic effect. If you tolerance is low, then you should add at least one or two packets of LivonLabs.com Lypo-C per day.

Perhaps johnwen will comment on the drugs you are taking, stopped, or not taking.

The water increase/heart failure problem may be due to adrenal fatigue. (I had similar "water" symptoms that were caused by low cortisol last summer. After reading SAFE USES OF CORTISOL, 3rd Edition, William Mck Jefferies, I learned what was wrong with me and finally found an alternative doc to prescribe the correct dosage. I am now playing tennis and feel great. )

[ofonorow]

The potassium figure is correct. That's what I have been taking & the last blood test did not indicate A high potassium. But bear in mind I take 40 MG of Furosimide daily.

I am not a potassium expert! As I was searching this forum for recommendations on potassium, i am reminded that some experts claim that high potassium makes adrenal fatigue worse.

(Note: reminder to read Jefferies' SAFE USES OF CORTISOL !!)

Johnwens typical dose seems to be around 100 mg, and always with magnesium.

700 mg is 7 times his recommended dose of potassium

He sometimes recommended starting with two dose - or 200 mg of mag/pot.

We'll wait to see if johnwen comments.

[Johnwen]

[ofonorow]

Thanks johnwen. I asked him about the different reports about vitamin C in the two posts, and this is his reply, followed by mine.

Hi Owen, the reason for the 7-8 G was pre heart failure. Since I had to stop the Sodium -C I switched to Lypo, very Expensive & I dropped to 4-5. I am now in the process of making my own lypo. Intake will soon be back up to 7-8 plus.

Its confusing, but 4-5 livonlabs Lypo-C is probably multiplied by at least 5, or equivalent to 20 to 25 g ordinary vitamin C. (I think livon might say 10 g equivalent).

The homemade is not lipospheric, but does seem to "protect" the vitamin into the digestive tract and may double or triple the effectiveness of ordinary vitamin C.

[Saw]

The homemade is not lipospheric

Says Who?

Hint: Livon labs and their BS "test" is not an acceptable answer.

[Johnwen]

[ofonorow]

Thanks johnwen, I do wonder given the lasix if more potassium (and other electrolytes) should be taken? What nutrient recommendations would you make? Thx

Regarding home made lipo - I will start a new topic.

[Johnwen]

[ofonorow]

Johnwen, thank you for taking the time to comment.

I would be interested in the cortisol and muscle mass reference, and I suspect that like most other "problems" with cortisol - the only absolutely essential hormone - it is large super-replacement dosages that cause the problem. Everyone produces (or should) around 35-40 mg per day. (All I or Jefferies would recomend, is about half that amount to rest the adrenals and settle down the hormone signally from the brain.)

When the adrenals become fatigued, then as Jefferies documents, other hormones often become imbalanced by signals from the brain trying to get more cortisol into the blood stream. This is why his electrolyte imbalances (of which I am no expert, but was impressed by your comments on my case) might be the result of a hormone imbalance, caused by low adrenal output of cortisol. So, while this is probably moot, as this gentlemen probably could not find a doctor to give him cortisol replacement, I was just talking about a dosage that he should otherwise be making on his own to rest his adrenals.

As another plug for the Jefferies book, I just got a message from Dr. Levy that he has just read it, and he thanked me, and said that the book "answered a lot of questions" for him...

[ofonorow]

Sorry johnwen - lost that last post with the links to cortisol and muscle loss.

[Johnwen]

I like the new server. It's a click, Bang, Your there

Here's the summary one from Livestrong.

http://www.livestrong.com/article/14085 ... -cortisol/

Here's the one with 4450 articles or 223 pages of everything under the sun about Cortisol and excersise.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/?term=c ... ctspelling

[ofonorow]

Regarding the first link - maybe my head is blown from yesterday's move, but it doesn't add up. I stopped reading after two paragraphs...

During exercise, the body releases the hormone cortisol to provide glucose for the body. Cortisol derives glucose by breaking down protein found in muscles. This results in muscle loss, since the body is using muscle protein instead of carbohydrates for fuel. Regulating cortisol levels helps decrease muscle loss while increasing the body's ability to build muscle.

Read more: http://www.livestrong.com/article/14085 ... z245y0TamV

First, it is probably true that stress of exercise leads to higher cortisol levels, but a "sub replacement" dose only means that the adrenals have to produce less of their own, when called upon to reach these levels. When you take less than the replacement dose, it is not additive!

Second, I have been trying to research how glutocoricoids raise blood sugar, and prior to these links, I believed it was mostly from a process in the liver. In other words, I am not sure I believe that they do their work by degrading muscles!! I am reading it, but I do not believe it. I guess I need to find the direct experimental evidence, preferably in animals.

Now from my "body building" reading, the body can be in either an anabolic (nitrogen positive) or catabolic (nitrogen negative) state, which is why taking lysine/argine can put on some pounds. It helps keep the body in the anabolic state of positive nitrogen balance. Yes, when the N balance is low, the body will use muscle proteins to get the necessary nitrogen (which is why body builders worry). Even if glutocorticoids do play a role in this process, taking more lysine/arginine should overcome the muscle wasting issue. (My guess only at this point.)

[Johnwen]

[Johnwen]

Here's the one I was looking for when I ran across the one in the previous post.

PROTEOLYSIS= Muscle wasting

IN PHYSIOLOGIC RANGE=What the body would normally produce.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article ... 0-0136.pdf

A little more eaiser to read From A Muscle Head

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/drobson.htm