Hi CT/calcium score, doctor tried statins, found Leake book

The discussion of the Linus Pauling vitamin C/lysine invention for chronic scurvy

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Hi CT/calcium score, doctor tried statins, found Leake book

Post by ofonorow » Wed Sep 05, 2012 12:09 pm

Hi Owen!

I recently stumbled into the PT whilst doing some research on CHD. I am a 43 year old male, whose father passed at 46. In June of this year, my Cardiologist ordered me for a Calcium CT score.

My score came out in the 90th+ % for my age. As such, I panicked and started to do some research. My cardiologist ordered an echo stress test. The results of which were normal. I was taking 1500mg of Niaspan, and 4grams of Lovaza.

My lipid panel at that time looked like this:

Total Chol: 198
HDL: 27
LDL: 112
Triglycerides: 296
CPR (this was taken last 3/2011): 6.6

After consulting with the doctor about my profile, calcium score and stress test, he wanted to put me on a statin. I reluctantly agreed and went on 20mg Pravoc hol daily. I continued all other Rx. I did this for 2 weeks, and was barely able to walk.

Despite the muscle weakness, and joint stiffness, I started walking 3.2 miles 5X / week. (started at the end of June. I was able to finish in 1:06 minutes on average.

After two weeks, I called the doctor and advised on my symptoms. I stopped the Pravochol, and returned to his office 2 weeks later. It was within this time (3 rd week of July ) that I stumbled into David Leakes book, and the Unified Theory. I started the protocol (of course without my doctors knowledge:).

I started, and continue with:

15 Grams of Vitamin C
6 Grams L Lysine
2 Grams of L Proline

I split my doses into 3 equal. (1000 mg of Proline before bed).

Upon my return to the doctor, he suggested another statin. This time, Crestor, 2x / week. After 2 doses, my weakness returned, and I stumbled into the Lipid Hypothesis". I started reading Anthony Colpo's book, The Great Cholesterol Con. I also picked up Malcolm Kendricks book by the same name.

Nonetheless, I decided that statins are not where I want to be.

I continued walking, and made some rather drastic changes. I cut out ALL processed food (with the exception of cheese). I have also Eliminated all refined sugar. Also, I have eliminated ALL wheat. My diet is more in line with Paleo right now. Fruits, some veggies, and mostly protein / meat. Eggs, butter, but no dairy except some cheese. I am now starting incorporation of coconut oil.

I did a lipid panel last week, and the cardiologist called, almost in a state of panic . I think they were great, but wanted your opinion.

Total Chol: 232 (up 17%)
HDL: 45 (Up 67%)
LDL: 166 (Up 48 %)
Triglycerides: 106! (Down 64%)
CRP: I am awaiting this score.

I think he was concerned about the increased total and LDL increase, but I am looking at the other numbers are really good improvements in 7 weeks from last profile and 3 weeks since changing my diet. He also noted that my Vitamin D was low ( I do stay out of the sun, and my dairy intake is VERY limited. In fact, I am cutting this entirely).

Of course I am concerned about my plaque, and the reduction thereof. I have two small children, and I do not wish to orphan them as my father did to our family . (note: he was a heavy smoker, overweight, and owned his own business( stress
!)).

My cardio has improved. I am now able to walk those same 3.2 miles in 54 minute
s.

My previous BP was 125/85 and 89-91 BPM. It is now 108/68 and 79 BPM.

I've only lost 3 LB, but feel so much better. I am now 5' 8" and 195....technically obese.

How would you look at my numbers? Am I nuts not to do the statin?

How can I REALLY see if the PT is working? Another CT scan?

I eagerly await your response.

Best regards,

Karl

Sent from my iPhone


First, congrats on research and stopping the poison (in my opinion) - the statin.

And congrats on your new diet ! All sounds good.

We have noticed that as people begin PT, their cholesterol goes up for a time, maybe because it is being loosened from the arterial walls, and not excreted right away?

Your total cholesterol number may indicate that you might need even more vitamin C, but you are taking a really good amount. (We are all different though).

Since this began with a high arterial calcium score - and the regular PT does not attack calcium, at least not for months and months or years, I recommend adding a good vitamin K daily (e.g. Super-K from LEF.ORG). A vitamin K supplement will lower your calcium score, at least in one year, maybe less, we don't know for sure. Less calcium in the arteries allows them to stretch and makes any clots that much less dangerous.

Not sure I understand your vitamin D issue - take sun (everywhere but face) for 20-30 minutes daily! Long story if you need it... let me know.
Owen R. Fonorow
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Re: Hi CT/calcium score, doctor tried statins, found Leake b

Post by Johnwen » Wed Sep 05, 2012 9:40 pm

First I'll pick on this person!!!

I started walking 3.2 miles 5X / week. (started at the end of June. I was able to finish in 1:06 minutes on average.

181mph WOW!!

I am now able to walk those same 3.2 miles in 54 minutes.

3.5MPH Must be getting slugish.
My Favorite:
CRP: I am awaiting this score.

It probably dropped and your doc don't want to show you!!!
You do mean hsCRP Correct??
I did a CAC with the numbers you provided! You went from 7.9% to 4.4% which is great keep up the good work. Your increase in HDL and Decrease in TGL is great.
The dirty little secret is that NORMAL Cholestrol is between 210-240. Below 200 is Big Pharmas numbers to get you on poisions their selling.
Question to ask your doc!! Why do people who have heart attacks have low cholestrol when there brought into the ER??? See what he says.
My advice: Keep doing what your doing and if you feel good doing it, all the better!!
To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism. To steal from many is
research!

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Re: Hi CT/calcium score, doctor tried statins, found Leake b

Post by ofonorow » Thu Sep 06, 2012 7:49 am

Thank you, thank you for your response!

Vitamin D - a tough call on the sun. I was diagnosed with Melanoma 10 years ago, so it's not the greatest thing to get too much exposure :)

I did some research, and previously read that Vitamin K2 could be very helpful in placing calcium where it is supposed to go (I.e. Bones instead of soft tissue, etc.). I had picked some up a couple of weeks ago, but have not started, as I do not know how much is appropriate. The doctor would see this as hokum.

Owen, are you saying that the PT would not work in my case? I'm not sure I understand.

I have no other plausible explanation for the increase in LDL. I thought that by eating Paleo, my LDL would actually go down. Perhaps I am mistaken .

As I said, I was feeling really good about all of my numbers, and hopeful that my increased LDL was the plaque breaking up. Perhaps I'm overly ambitious:).

I have my follow up with the cardiologist in the am. I am sure there will be more talk of statins, which I will politely decline.

I really hope I am doing the right things:)

Thanks for starting that thread . I hope your cardiologist responds!

Best regards,

Karl

P.S. Is there any true limit or efficacy on the Vitamin C? I tolerate it quite well, so I could do more if recommended.



A) have you searched vitamin D and cancer? (Should be another topic) Look for vitamin D studies on ships. Expected those sailors on deck with sun exposure to have greater incidence than those beneath deck in the engine room. Opposite. Sailors exposed to sun
had much lower incidence of skin cancers.. Also, when I post this, I'll include a link to the story about Vitamin A and melanoma...Better than chemo

Also, I'd be careful what is in the sun screens, have an idea that these sun blockers have more to do with skin cancer than the sun! More at forum

B) PT will work, has been working, but as far as the calcium - you need vitamin K to get rid of that particular (easier to measure) symptom. Super-K at LEF.ORG has all forms.

GOod idea to take vitamins A, D and K as a complex - together.



Good evening Owen,

Could I trouble you to look at my login to the Vit C Org Forum? I believe that I signed up 5 weeks ago when I found Leakes book, but my account is inactive.

Regarding Vit K: I had purchased Vitamin K-2 (MK-7).....,is this what I want / need for breaking down the calcium plaques? How much should I take?

BTW, as I read more about Vitamin K-2, I wonder if my food choices have started that breakdown:)? Over the last 3 weeks, I have eaten 4-6 eggs every morning. I have also eaten more beef than I have in years.......both apparently great sources of Vit K.

Finally, I read a post that you wrote recently to a Mr. Lewis, regarding a docum entary you are planning. Owen, I believe in what you, Pauling, Rath, etc. are espousing. Not only because I want to, but because it makes plausible sense to me. Nonetheless, if you folks can help me solve my little problem ( a nice clean Calcium Scan!), I would LOVE to be do my part by spreading the work. I am highly passionate speaker, and I consider myself to be relatively well spoken.

Thank you again for your time and assistance. It is truly valued.

Best,

Karl
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Re: Hi CT/calcium score, doctor tried statins, found Leake b

Post by Heatherkap » Thu Sep 06, 2012 5:08 pm


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Re: Hi CT/calcium score, doctor tried statins, found Leake b

Post by Heatherkap » Thu Sep 06, 2012 5:12 pm

OWEN:

Cardiologist told me to take 2000IU of Vitamin D.

I also started Vitamin K2 - 100 mcg daily. I have no idea if this is sufficiet or not.

JOHNWEN: Can you help me with your post? Based on my numbers you figured my CAC score? I'm not sure I understand.

Thanks,

Karl!!!!!

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Re: Hi CT/calcium score, doctor tried statins, found Leake b

Post by Johnwen » Thu Sep 06, 2012 10:14 pm

Heres the closest one I could find to the one I use on my other computer.
It's based on the framington study.


https://www.itsmyhealthrecord.com/ACCriskform2008.lasso
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Re: Hi CT/calcium score, doctor tried statins, found Leake b

Post by Johnwen » Fri Sep 07, 2012 9:59 am

What these numbers tell you is what percentile of risk you are in. As the numbers drop as yours has it it indicates improvement. So 0% is ideal (which nobody breathing gets)and 100% which means your probably in the hospital getting your chest cracked open.
So I think you can see based on these numbers your doing the right thing for your body because your numbers are dropping.
But once again this is number crunching how you feel and how you preceive your health as you are progressing through these numbers is just as important. A positive attitude and a stress free or at least a controlled stressed lifestyle is just as important.
Hope this helps!
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Re: Hi CT/calcium score, doctor tried statins, found Leake b

Post by Krikorkap » Fri Sep 07, 2012 8:47 pm

Thanks Owen! I am able to login.

John Wen - Got it. I was told that eating Paleo can raise your LDL initially as your liver purges excess cholesterol. We will see what happens.

Although the doctor gave me the script to do the LP(a) and LDL particle size in Dec., I'm doing them next week, as I want the baseline. I'll let you know in a week or so.

Karl

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Re: Hi CT/calcium score, doctor tried statins, found Leake b

Post by ofonorow » Sun Sep 09, 2012 8:26 am

Krikorkap wrote:.

Although the doctor gave me the script to do the LP(a) and LDL particle size in Dec., I'm doing them next week, as I want the baseline. I'll let you know in a week or so.

Karl


Not the large company that starts with a "Q" - as they apparently calculate, and don't measure Lp(a)!

You can get Lp(a) measured, (pls. make sure it is)

Now Atherotech (VAP) no longer provides what they used to re: Lp(a) (e.g., break down into particle sizes, etc.) they do measure and they keep the data and your doctor can get at it by asking.

But you'd have to keep using them for follow on reports as their reporting method is unlike any other. (They tell you the number of particles and report the weight in terms of a standard LDL moledule. Because Lp(a) size and density can vary greatly. Weight may not matter if the particles are not dense, etc.

p.s. As I read your posts, I am glad that you were only on statins for two weeks. As David Leake reports, cholesterol is perhaps the most important constituent of the brain, and reducing cholesterol can impair cognitive abilities. I can see that yours are not impaired! (Unlike a few posters who are long term statin users 8) )
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Re: Hi CT/calcium score, doctor tried statins, found Leake b

Post by Krikorkap » Sun Sep 09, 2012 5:19 pm

Thanks Owen. I have to say that my brain feels much clearer since dumping the carbs and sugar. I'm thinking that is not a coincidence.

I typically do use the bi Q. I'll have to see if I can do the other place. He did order LP(a) and particle sizes.

Having been on the PT for about a month, I'm not sure where I'll be.

So glad I came to this forum!!!!

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Re: Hi CT/calcium score, doctor tried statins, found Leake b

Post by ofonorow » Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:13 am

Why not ask the Q if they have starting "measuring" (rather than calculating) Lp(a).

Several years back the FDA allowed this "calculation" using other lipid measurements (i.e. guessing) based on the rationale that nothing changes Lp(a) anyway.. so an accurate number is not all that important to the FDA..
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Re: Hi CT/calcium score, doctor tried statins, found Leake b

Post by Johnwen » Tue Sep 11, 2012 9:49 pm

reducing cholesterol can impair cognitive abilities. I can see that yours are not impaired! (Unlike a few posters who are long term statin users


Sometimes the FDA does the right thing but gets run over by hog wash from the drug pushers who believe this crooke and use trivial data as proof. Then berate a FDA Labeling order which is intended to keep people alive. NOTE the recovery times in comparison time on drug. It could be a ratio as high as 21 to 1 possibility this will happen to you from these drugs. SAFE??????


http://drunderberg.com/id21.html
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Re: Hi CT/calcium score, doctor tried statins, found Leake b

Post by Johnwen » Thu Sep 13, 2012 9:32 am

In this paper they discuss, "STATIN SAFETY"?????? what ever that is???
If you choose to read it Great! but if not at least click on the link which takes you to a PDF file and scroll down to pages 8 to 10. Here you will learn about the writers and who they work for.
I think a blind person could realize that this writing is BIAS. The question is. "Would they really bite the hand that feeds them???"
Obiviously math is not one of their expertise.
3 people in 100 = .003 per 100,000 maybe they were thinking about how much money their getting from big pharma. In comparison to what they think their worth!!!


http://www.lipid.org/pdfs/Statin_Safety_Task_Force.pdf
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