Moderator: ofonorow
davids1 wrote:Hi Zarna,
Question: How long have you "been on vit c formula from tower," and how much do you ingest daily?
And welcome to the forum, Zarna!
Sincerely,
David
Zarna wrote:MY QUESTION IS: is it ok to do it like this so that I can drink the mixture together and do not have to add other things etc to it later? I find that I can digest it better. ANOTHER QUESTION: how long do you think it takes with Linus Pauling formula to start seeing the visible difference that it is working?
I hope this helps, Zarna [in your ongoing education]."The clinical symptoms of...diseases and other conditions...are markedly ameliorated ONLY as Bowel Tolerance dose levels (the amount that almost, but not quite, causes diarrhea) are approached." -- Dr. Robert Cathcart, M.D.
"The three most important considerations in effective vitamin C therapy are "Dose, Dose, and Dose." If you don't take enough, you won't get the desired effects. Period!...you will rarely ever fail to observe a DRAMATIC response...IF you take a large enough dose, for a long enough time." -- Dr. Thomas Levy, M.D.
Zarna wrote:davids1 wrote:Hi Zarna,
The only thing I would like to add to Owen and Pam's informative posts, is the concept of "Bowel Tolerance." Are you familiar with it? If not, Zarna, I highly recommend you become so! This article [at least the first 10 paragraphs] will explain it to you : http://vitamincfoundation.org/www.ortho ... itrate.htm. My view, Zarna, is that if you are not reaching Bowel Tolerance regularly, you will not receive the maximum possible benefits available from ascorbic acid.
The following two quotes are instructive:I hope"The clinical symptoms of...diseases and other conditions...are markedly ameliorated ONLY as Bowel Tolerance dose levels (the amount that almost, but not quite, causes diarrhea) are approached." -- Dr. Robert Cathcart, M.D.
"The three most important considerations in effective vitamin C therapy are "Dose, Dose, and Dose." If you don't take enough, you won't get the desired effects. Period!...you will rarely ever fail to observe a DRAMATIC response...IF you take a large enough dose, for a long enough time." -- Dr. Thomas Levy, M.D.
this helps, Zarna [in your ongoing education].
Best wishes,
Dear David1,
I read your mail and also went thru your bowel tolerance article. My bowel tolerance at the moment is about 3 times which I consider not to bad. They are just short of diarrhea as I can see. From today I am starting 14g vit C together with its companions in pure water. (It is completely filtered water in filtration machine). Let me see how I tolerate this and also I shall continue to take tower tech formula 2 scoops in the morning but the rest I shall take my prepared water. Shall keep you informed.
Besides this, I also go to aqua pools where I have been walking 2km (25mtr length x80 single laps). This pool walk which I take in 4 to 5 different ways has started to show results. Initially I used to feel unbearable pain in both my calf muscles and each time I added another kind of walk it was the same unbearable calf muscles. But now all my various ways of walking , forward, backward, sideways, jumping and running etc...the pain in my left muscle still appears sometimes in certain walk but is going down. My shot is combination of this walk and vit c formula and am hoping that when there will be no more pain in my calves which ever way I walk ( I also do 1 hour of aerobic class after the walk) then I would like to venture out to walk on the roads.
Wish me luck. Best wishes
Davidofonorow wrote:Good that you are on the tried and true Tower product, not so good that you do not take it regularly. The major lesson I wanted to convey in the book Practicing Medicine Without a License is not only how rapidly Linus Pauling's invention of lysine added to vitamin C can resolve heart disease, but that people usually feel cured at some point, stop taking their vitamin C - and relapse. Usually 6 months later.
I too am wary of liposomal lysine/proline. What if liposomes aren't even traveling in the blood? What if they are going through the lymph system, or some other way to help explain their extreme power fighting infection? (Dr Levy has wondered about other mechanisms in our conversations).
I try to stay away from discussions of liposomes - because I know people are passionate. All I can say is that if homemade "liposomes" truly encapsulate water - then that water better be clean and pure - because it will bypass the immune system.
We know that products like Tower Heart Technology and Cardio-C work. They are based upon Linus Pauling's recommendations. People can certainly mix their own and probably achieve good results, but for a serious illness, why take any chances?[/quote
Dear Owen,
I can see what you are talking about. When I said emergency, I meant every morning my first dose is towers 2 scoops. After that I took liposomal my solution 3 more times a day. I do wish to be cured completely and I have placed all my faith in Linus Pauling theory and I do believe it will help me. I do not wish to write anything here in detail but tower formula to take earnestly for me should be min 14gms vit c per day and add to that the proportionate l-lysine, proline etc. for me to take that I would need at least 4 tp 5 double scoops a day and the cost of it is aus$60 per tub. It has 30 servings which will mean every 6 days I shall need another tower tub. This is the reason why I need alternate way to do both, tower and my own way of mixing.
Since your mail today, I have stopped liposomal mixture and have prepared 14g ascorbic acid, 14g l-lysine, 3g proline and 1/2 tspn stevia. I have prepared the mixture in pure water and will drink a little every half hour. The bottle is 700ml so by night I would have taken it all. This is how Mary had started me and after taking cloversil PLus I had such bad coughing bouts that I thought I would die coughing. What is was I do not know whether the combination did it. Now I am restarting this formula and if I remain ok with it, I shall continue it. Will keep you informed if everything remains ok.
I would dearly like a cheaper way to receive tower tech so that I can take it atleast 3 times a day and the rest I can drink my mixture. I have written to tower regarding this and am awaiting their answer.
Looking forward to you comment on my new way to drink vit c.
Zarna
davids1 wrote:The only thing I would like to add to Owen and Pam's informative posts, is the concept of "Bowel Tolerance." Are you familiar with it? If not, Zarna, I highly recommend you become so!
Pauling Therapy Summary
Therapeutic:
Vitamin C (6,000 to 18,000 mg)
Lysine (5,000 to 6,000 mg)
Pauling Therapy Enhancements:
Proline (250 to 2,000 mg)
Coenzyme Q10 (100 to 300 mg)
Magnesium (150 to 1,500 mg)
Preventives:
Vitamin C (3,000 to 10,000 mg)
Lysine (2,000 to 4,000 mg)
Follow Pauling's other heart and cardiovascular recommendations:
Vitamin E - 800 to 3,200 IU
Vitamin A - 20,000 to 40,000 IU
Super B-Complex - 1 or 2
Daily multiple vitamin and mineral
Drink plenty of water
Additional Enhancements:
Eliminate trans fatty acids from the diet
Introduce unprocessed Omega-3 and Omega-6 oils
Eat salt, but only unrefined salt
Reduce manganese intake
Eliminate ordinary sugar and refined carbohydrates
Supplement with vitamin K
Avoid supplemental calcium
Supplement with the amino acids taurine, arginine and carnitine (1 to 3 grams)
Supplement with vitamin D3 (2,000 IU), especially in the winter months
Supplement with melatonin (3 to 6 mg) before bedtime
Zarna wrote:Since your mail today, I have stopped liposomal mixture and have prepared 14g ascorbic acid, 14g l-lysine, 3g proline and 1/2 tspn stevia. I have prepared the mixture in pure water and will drink a little every half hour. The bottle is 700ml so by night I would have taken it all.
pamojja wrote:davids1 wrote:The only thing I would like to add to Owen and Pam's informative posts, is the concept of "Bowel Tolerance." Are you familiar with it? If not, Zarna, I highly recommend you become so!
Beside checking bowel tolerance and then dosing 3/4 of it, I hope you're familiar with the rest of Pauling's treatment recommendations.
http://practicingmedicinewithoutalicens ... t_chp7.pdfPauling Therapy Summary
Therapeutic:
Vitamin C (6,000 to 18,000 mg)
Lysine (5,000 to 6,000 mg)
Pauling Therapy Enhancements:
Proline (250 to 2,000 mg)
Coenzyme Q10 (100 to 300 mg)
Magnesium (150 to 1,500 mg)
Preventives:
Vitamin C (3,000 to 10,000 mg)
Lysine (2,000 to 4,000 mg)
Follow Pauling's other heart and cardiovascular recommendations:
Vitamin E - 800 to 3,200 IU
Vitamin A - 20,000 to 40,000 IU
Super B-Complex - 1 or 2
Daily multiple vitamin and mineral
Drink plenty of water
Additional Enhancements:
Eliminate trans fatty acids from the diet
Introduce unprocessed Omega-3 and Omega-6 oils
Eat salt, but only unrefined salt
Reduce manganese intake
Eliminate ordinary sugar and refined carbohydrates
Supplement with vitamin K
Avoid supplemental calcium
Supplement with the amino acids taurine, arginine and carnitine (1 to 3 grams)
Supplement with vitamin D3 (2,000 IU), especially in the winter months
Supplement with melatonin (3 to 6 mg) before bedtime
Yes, I am aware of the above most of it is part of my daily routine diet. Thank you for filling up the gaps pamojja.Zarna wrote:Since your mail today, I have stopped liposomal mixture and have prepared 14g ascorbic acid, 14g l-lysine, 3g proline and 1/2 tspn stevia. I have prepared the mixture in pure water and will drink a little every half hour. The bottle is 700ml so by night I would have taken it all.
Nowhere I saw lysine that high recommended, 2 g/d of proline would already plenty as well. However, Ascorbic Acid in Water has a very short half-live therefore would dissolve it fresh at each dose for highest potency.
Hi Zarna,Zarna wrote:...tower formula to take earnestly for me should be min 14gms vit c per day and add to that the proportionate l-lysine, proline etc. for me to take that I would need at least 4 tp 5 double scoops a day and the cost of it is aus$60 per tub. It has 30 servings which will mean every 6 days I shall need another tower tub. This is the reason why I need alternate way to do both, tower and my own way of mixing.
You'll note, Zarna, that the atherosclerosis was, in fact, reversed with ascorbic acid ALONE. But, I would assume for this to work, a person would absolutely need to be ingesting a Bowel Tolerance dose of ascorbic acid daily.A most exciting paper by G.C. Willis appeared in 1957 entitled "the Reversibility of Atherosclerosis." In this study atherosclerosis was induced in guinea pigs by depriving them of ascorbic acid. Some guinea pigs were then given large doses of ascorbic acid and it was found that in these animals the beginning atherosclerotic lesions were rapidly resorbed while the more advanced atherosclerotic plaques on the artery walls took longer. There was a steady decline in the incidence of the lesions in direct proportion to the duration of ascorbic acid therapy.
davids1 wrote:Hi Zarna,Zarna wrote:...tower formula to take earnestly for me should be min 14gms vit c per day and add to that the proportionate l-lysine, proline etc. for me to take that I would need at least 4 tp 5 double scoops a day and the cost of it is aus$60 per tub. It has 30 servings which will mean every 6 days I shall need another tower tub. This is the reason why I need alternate way to do both, tower and my own way of mixing.
If money is a factor, the following may be of interest to you. Irwin stone, in his book THE HEALING FACTOR: VITAMIN C Against Disease recorded the following study:You'll note, Zarna, that the atherosclerosis was, in fact, reversed with ascorbic acid ALONE. But, I would assume for this to work, a person would absolutely need to be ingesting a Bowel Tolerance dose of ascorbic acid daily.A most exciting paper by G.C. Willis appeared in 1957 entitled "the Reversibility of Atherosclerosis." In this study atherosclerosis was induced in guinea pigs by depriving them of ascorbic acid. Some guinea pigs were then given large doses of ascorbic acid and it was found that in these animals the beginning atherosclerotic lesions were rapidly resorbed while the more advanced atherosclerotic plaques on the artery walls took longer. There was a steady decline in the incidence of the lesions in direct proportion to the duration of ascorbic acid therapy.
Just trying to help,
David
Beside checking bowel tolerance and then dosing 3/4 of it, I hope you're familiar with the rest of Pauling's treatment recommendations.
You'll note, Zarna, that the atherosclerosis was, in fact, reversed with ascorbic acid ALONE. But, I would assume for this to work, a person would absolutely need to be ingesting a Bowel Tolerance dose of ascorbic acid daily.
Hi Zarna,Zarna wrote:i am trying to understand your point re ascorbic acid alone can help me. one thing is different between guinea pigs and myself in that they had induced deprivation. in any case according to Linus, only humans do not make their own Vit C. So the Guinea pigs are different to me as I have inherited these tendendies from 2 to 3 generatiions. So I will not have that confidence to go it alone without any medical practitioner overseeing me.
ofonorow wrote:Want to clarify several points made above:Beside checking bowel tolerance and then dosing 3/4 of it, I hope you're familiar with the rest of Pauling's treatment recommendations.
This is not technically correct. 3/4 of the "C Calibration" or "C Cleanse", not bowel tolerance. There is a significant difference between bowl tolerance and the Russell Jaffe C Calibration. Dr. Jaffe discusses the difference in one of the youtube videos of his lectures. (in a nut shell, the bowel tolerance titration method does not provide enough vitamin C fast enough. The Cleanse was invented to assist with heavy metal detox.You'll note, Zarna, that the atherosclerosis was, in fact, reversed with ascorbic acid ALONE. But, I would assume for this to work, a person would absolutely need to be ingesting a Bowel Tolerance dose of ascorbic acid daily.
In the Willis guinea pig experiments on the reversibility of atherosclerosis, it is true that vitamin C alone was the surprising single factor. But when Willis progressed to humans, only 1/3 of the subjects experienced reversals in their atherosclerotic plaques. (in 1/3 of his human subjects, their heart conditions got worse.)
If you remember the very first case Pauling reported (and on the Video - I will look for the snippet) the National Academy of Sciences Medal Winner had heart disease, despite his 5 grams of vitamin C daily. He still had angina and trouble walking. The first case is in this video snippet: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PN8up1U6wNQ&feature=player_embedded )
After Pauling suggested he add 5 grams of lysine, a month later this scientist was chopping wood.
The addition of lysine is based on Pauling's insight of what makes plaques grow - they adhere to lesions on arteries. I believe it is true, that if one takes a lot of vitamin C to keep their arteries strong and healthy, then there would be no lesions, and thus no need for Lp(a) binding inhibitors in higher dosages in healthy people, but how many humans are really taking enough vitamin C to obtain true good arterial health?
What I have noticed anecdotally over the years is that heart disease does not require bowel tolerance dosages (as infections and probably cancer do.) I have formulated a postulate that no one who consumes more than 10 grams (10,000 mg of vitamin C) daily for say 2 years will have heart disease. This is based on my experience with how "little" actually reverses most cases. I am not saying don't give the body what it wants, but the dosage of vitamin C in perhaps90% of the population to prevent heart disease is around 10,000 mg.
It is interesting that David might be an exception to this rule. For some reason (dental toxicity is my guess) David requires the highest daily amount of vitamin C that I know for a person in "good health". If he were to reduce his daily intake from 100,000 mg to 10,000 mg, he would not be protected from heart disease as are most people. If my guess about toxicity is the reason, then we can see how and why dental toxicity is highly correlated with heart disease.
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