Lp(a) has not dropped on Cardio-C for 2.5 months

The discussion of the Linus Pauling vitamin C/lysine invention for chronic scurvy

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Lp(a) has not dropped on Cardio-C for 2.5 months

Post Number:#1  Post by ofonorow » Wed Jul 29, 2015 7:13 am

Hi Owen my name is Mark I have been taking 2 scoops of cardio c daily for 2 1/2 months now. Just had blood work done and lpa number never changed at 188 lpa. Total cholesterol at 150 tri at 80 Hdl at 66 ldl at 69. I was really hoping it would have went down. I also have been doing chelation therapy for once a week for 10 weeks now. I do get some diaherra any help would be greatly appreciated. Mark


Given you very low total cholesterol number (yours is 150 and normal is 180 mg/dl) I gather the Lp(a) number is nmol/l. Please verify and remind me of the range for Lp(a) given on the lab report.

And since Lp(a) is a fraction of LDL -and your total LDL is 69 - I suspect the Lp(a) is calculated, rather than measured. (If the numbers are correct, more than half your LDL is Lp(a), which would imply that Pauling's invention, Lp(a) binding inhibitors, are very important in your case, no matter whether your Lp(a) lowers or not.

In our experience, it takes more than six months, and perhaps up to 18 months, for Lp(a) levels to drop.

For the Diarrhea, try 2/3 scoops, three times daily (instead of 1 scoop, 2 times daily) - spread out a lower dosage.
Owen R. Fonorow
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Re: Lp(a) has not dropped on Cardio-C for 2.5 months

Post Number:#2  Post by ofonorow » Tue Aug 04, 2015 9:47 am

Thanks for the reply Owen. Lab report says Lpa should be below 30 and there report shows mine at 188.so you are saying it would a little more than half of lol correct. So that would put me at around 45. Why so different? Just trying to understand thanks Mark

I double checked and it says 188 mg/dl


Please ask the lab a question: How can your total cholesterol be 150 mg/dl and your Lp(a) (which is a subset of LDL cholesterol) be 188 mg/dl !?!?!?

Obvious error and I would be interested in their response.

Seems to me the answer is that they "calculated" Lp(a) - rather than actually measuring it.
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Re: Lp(a) has not dropped on Cardio-C for 2.5 months

Post Number:#3  Post by Johnwen » Tue Aug 04, 2015 4:46 pm

From the numbers I’m seeing here!
It appears he’s under the care of a “STATINATOR” ( a doctor who thinks lowering cholesterol will solve all your problems)

Which also means he’s more then likely taking Statins!
Probably in very high dose!

If he’s got a blood test handy with other than cholesterol numbers on it and he’s willing to share this info??
I would like to see the following readings???

eGFR or just GFR
Creatinine
TSH
Calcium
Glucose

What were looking at here are the Kidney’s, Thyroid, Parathyroid, Pancreas all which have been associated with high LP(a) levels.

Kidney’s and thyroid have all been linked to high LP(a).

Since it’s doubtful they checked his insulin levels glucose will give us a clue.

Me!! My money is on thyroid!!
Low cholesterol levels (which he has) are notorious for messing up the thyroid since it uses cholesterol to make it’s products.

A malfunctioning thyroid causes What to rise and what don’t statins lower???

Right now the only hope he has is to stay on his cardio-c to neutralize the over abundance of LP(a) floating around inside him before it finds a niche to latch on to!!!!
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Re: Lp(a) has not dropped on Cardio-C for 2.5 months

Post Number:#4  Post by ofonorow » Wed Aug 05, 2015 7:06 am

Thanks johnwen, but I am still having problems with his numbers not adding up. Any idea what may be going on with that?

Owen I called lab and the did measure mg/dl not calculated. I will say this for 15 yrs my ldl and trig count was never below 200 with all my meds and after 2 months of the vitamin c it dropped. I also started chelation therapy. I have another blood test in three months will let you know how that goes. Thanks again Mark


Okay, but the question for the lab is how could measured Lp(a) - which is a component of LDL - be greater than your total cholesterol????

lpa number never changed at 188 lpa. Total cholesterol at 150 tri at 80 Hdl at 66 ldl at 69.


Lp(a) + other LDL = LDL number (188 mg/dl + other LDL = 66) ?

LDL number + HDL = Total Cholesterol (66 (or 188?) + 80 = 150)

The numbers don't add up. Unless they specifically exclude the Lp(a) from the LDL - but that seems to require a test I have never heard of (to separate Lp(a) LDL from other LDL) , and it doesn't explain the low total cholesterol (150) which must include Lp(a) (188)?
Owen R. Fonorow
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Re: Lp(a) has not dropped on Cardio-C for 2.5 months

Post Number:#5  Post by Johnwen » Wed Aug 05, 2015 11:05 am

First let’s start by asking if Pauling Et al. pointed the finger at LP(a) as the cause for heart disease why has big pharma and the mainstream medical system has all but totally ignored this fact?

The answer is simple = “$$$$$”
Statins which are big pharmas, “Cash Cow!” DO NOT LOWER LP(a)!
They will lower the rest of the numbers BUT in most case’s will in fact RAISE LP(a) levels!!!

This is a fact that leaves a lot of doc’s bewildered especially when they have a patient heading to bypass surgery with cholesterol levels well below the recommended levels!

Once again one has to go back before the massive push of these CASH COWS when the people performing these studies that weren’t influenced by Big Pharma’s $$$$$ and were looking for REAL FACTS!!!
Here’s some to wet your whistle on!!!

http://www.nature.com/ki/journal/v66/n1 ... html#bib10

http://link.springer.com/article/10.1007%2FBF00878550

http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/407802

http://circ.ahajournals.org/content/80/5/1313.long


So as you can see although Statins do lower all the rest of the numbers LP(a) will remain high or even climb higher when a person is treated with these useless drugs!
Some say that LP(a) is a component of LDL it does and will act independent of the levels of LDL because it’s needed to maintain the integrity of the system but like our lack of V-C production it’s dependent on our consumption of necessary elements to maintain it’s levels to the point where a balance is maintained! When it’s not needed it will shut it’s self off and like the firemen it will sit and wait for a call to duty!! :shock:
To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism. To steal from many is
research!

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Re: Lp(a) has not dropped on Cardio-C for 2.5 months

Post Number:#6  Post by ofonorow » Thu Aug 06, 2015 5:19 am

You guessed correct johwen he is on a high dose statin! (Still wondering about the lab numbers that don't add up.)

Lipitor 40 mg
Fenofibrate 165 mg
Clopidogrel 75 mg
Carvedilol 12.5 x2 mg
Isosorbise 30 mg
Digoxin .125 mg
Vascepa 1 gmx2
Ranexa500 x2
Look At dates
5/24/15
GFR 72 estimated
Creatinine 1.1
7/23/15
TSH 2.510
There was no calcium or glucose
See attachments
Owen R. Fonorow
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Re: Lp(a) has not dropped on Cardio-C for 2.5 months

Post Number:#7  Post by Johnwen » Thu Aug 06, 2015 10:02 am

Isosorbise 30 mg


I’m sure this was suppose to be Isosorbide!
On your bottle label does it say MN (mononitrate) or DN (Dinitrate)???

GFR 72 estimated

Which is STAGE 2

In Stage 2 CKD, the GFR is mildly decreased between 60-89, indicating the person has kidney damage and mild loss of kidney function. Similar to Stage 1 CKD, following a healthy diet, controlling blood pressure and managing diabetes are key ways to slow the progression of CKD. Early CKD is usually diagnosed when there is:
High blood pressure
Higher than normal levels of creatinine or urea in the blood
Blood or protein in the urine
Evidence of kidney damage in an MRI, CT scan, ultrasound, or contrast X-ray
A family history of polycystic kidney disease (PKD)


Here’s some more info on this!

https://www.kidney.org/sites/default/fi ... ingleb.pdf


Ranexa500 x2


Realatively new Drug used for treatment of angina!

Renal Failure;
Acute renal failure has been observed in some patients with severe renal impairment (creatinine clearance [CrCL] < 30 mL/min) while taking Ranexa. If acute renal failure develops (e.g., marked increase in serum creatinine associated with an increase in blood urea nitrogen [BUN]), discontinue Ranexa and treat appropriately.

Monitor renal function after initiation and periodically in patients with moderate to severe renal impairment (CrCL < 60 mL/min) for increases in serum creatinine accompanied by an increase in BUN.


Fenofibrate 165 mg


Garbage!!! Need I say more!!!!!

In rare cases, fenofibrate can cause a condition that results in the breakdown of skeletal muscle tissue, leading to kidney failure. Call your doctor right away if you have unexplained muscle pain, tenderness, or weakness especially if you also have fever, unusual tiredness, and dark colored urine.


I think your starting to get a better picture as to why his LP(a) is high I already voiced my opinion on statins added to this picture!!
The only advice I could give at this point is “LYSINE” at least 6000mg. A day from whatever he’s getting from Cardio-c plus any extra to get up to the 6000 mark!!!!

Do a little more research and sit down and have a good talk with his doc about these meds!!!
Like getting rid of Renexa and Fenofibrate and cutting the lipitor down to bare min.’s! like 10mg. If not dropping it all together!

On the road he’s on! The only thing I see here is he’s killing his kidney’s and things are only going to get worse!!!

Owen: You did mean “A educated guess!!!” RIGHT????
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research!

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Re: Lp(a) has not dropped on Cardio-C for 2.5 months

Post Number:#8  Post by Johnwen » Fri Aug 07, 2015 10:48 am

To answer Owen’s question!!!

A small fraction of Lp(a) appears to be converted to LDL in vivo, and the LDL which results is the independent on the LDL receptor for normal catabolism.


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/article ... 1-0483.pdf


After reading this your probably wondering what does the breakdown of LP(a) and LDL have to do with high LP(a) and Low LDL.

Well it all comes down to two factors!
First the primary removal of LP(a) from the system is through the kidney’s although he’s only at stage 2 this could account for a part of the increase.

Now the primary rise would be more then likely caused by the core of all systems.

“Supply and Demand!”

This person is on high dose cholesterol inhibitors, which in essences shuts off his production of a critical element of life. (cells eat FAT and SUGAR) The bodies need's to survive and give the cells the foods to maintain their structure. It will find a means to meet these demands. Since he has a induced LDL deficiency, the body will increase it’s production of Apolipoprotein, which are not effected by the drugs, in an attempt to make up the demands. As you can see from the quote above a small % of the LP(a) will be converted to the much needed LDL and the excess is in waiting of conversion.

Remember they are getting their readings from returning blood (veinous) and your seeing the ones that didn’t get converted and the LDL’s that didn’t get consumed. Which if there is a deficit could also be indicative of homozygous familial hypercholesterolemia, (ie. He has a LDL receptor deffect!) and lowering the LDL component too far only makes matters worst!

I think you’ll also learn that although some believe LP(a) is a part of LDL’s it does not need the LDL component to be produced. Because the APO’s can encapsulate similar particle’s prior to conversion or filtering in the liver.

If this all seems a little baffling investigate the structure of the LP(a) molecule and you understand a little better what’s going on here!
Here’s the wiki on LP(a) for a start!

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lipoprotein%28a%29

Remember HDL, LDL, TRI’s, VLDL’s are all Lipoprotein’s
LP(a) is a Apolipoprotein! Which is what the little a stands for!
To steal ideas from one person is plagiarism. To steal from many is
research!

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Re: Lp(a) has not dropped on Cardio-C for 2.5 months

Post Number:#9  Post by 89826 » Wed Aug 12, 2015 12:52 am

Should be careful with terms here.

You are born with a cholesterol level of 100. That is what is truly normal, or healthy. Your body makes all the cholesterol it needs.

The average cholesterol level in the US is around 200. So in a statistical sense, 200 is indeed normal. However, the flaw in that thinking is the average (normal) person in the US dies of heart disease.

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Re: Lp(a) has not dropped on Cardio-C for 2.5 months

Post Number:#10  Post by ofonorow » Fri Aug 14, 2015 1:04 pm

johnwen, I am trying to understand how 1 + 2 can equal 4. (And I don't blame Big Pharma for trying to obscure what Lp(a) really is).

It is my understanding that Lp(a) is an LDL particle (of varying size and density) with an apo(a) particle attached.

Yes or no?

If yes, then how would it even be possible for them to exclude Lp(a) from an LDL measurement? Isn't the lab separating and measuring LDL cholesterol?

So if Lp(a) is 188 then total LDL would have to be HIGHER because it would include the Lp(a).

looking at this another way, take the VAP test - Lp(a) is always a small subset of the LDL cholesterol number.

Now, if the person is wrong - and the units are really nmol/l (rather than mg/dl) then that would explain things.
Owen R. Fonorow
HeartCURE.Info
American Scientist's Invention Could Prevent 350,000 Heart Bypass Operations a year


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