Eliminate sugar and refined and starchy carbs

[drtom]

Vitamin C supplementation along with proline and lysine makes sense from the standpoint of repairing damage done to coronary arteries, particularly the endothelium. I liked what Matthias Rath put out about this early in his career, but his current approach (correct me if I am wrong) is that micro nutrient deficiencies cause everything, which is GARBAGE.

More fundamental than collagen repair is to stop the inflammation that causes (or is a huge factor in developing) coronary arterial disease in the first place. As such, I have switched to a pure carnivore diet which does not have the inflammation created by refined and starchy carbs (including of course sugar). I feel better than I have in many years and other health problems have disappeared.

IMHO, eliminating these carbs is the most fundamental and important strategy to cut the risk of MI and stroke. The research bears this out (3 times LESS inflammation and other associated problems). This article discusses the fact that Vitamin C supplementation does not affect inflammatory markers (meaning does not lower them):

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18427418

[pamojja]

This article discusses the fact that Vitamin C supplementation does not affect inflammatory markers (meaning does not lower them):

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/18427418

The problem with all vitamin C studies is of course that they only study insufficient doses - like the 2 g in this one - but never up to the 20 g spread throughout the day many of us take. Though even at that low dose it did find reduction in lipid peroxidation, which of course would reduce chronic inflammation in the long run. Not with 2 g over a 24 hr period, but certainly with 20 g/d over the years.

I don't say so out of pure speculation - with a lack of properly dosed studies - but by testing lipid peroxidation and inflammation markers and comparing it to varying intakes with varying inflammatory conditions over the last 10 years myself. No question that was aided greatly by elimination of refined carbs.

One also has to consider that each of us came to this with different and differently severe conditions. And in my severe case eliminating refined carbs alone would certainly not have sufficed.

Here a study with even only 1 gram per day vitamin C, but for 60 days, which did find a 25% reduction of CRP, the usually used marker for inflammation: https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2631578/

[pamojja]

More fundamental than collagen repair is to stop the inflammation that causes (or is a huge factor in developing) coronary arterial disease in the first place

A little bid the chicken and egg problem. Weak collagen stands for a weak endothelium which easily gets damaged, and where chronic inflammation is actually a healing response gone awry. Vitamin C contributes help at each of those stages.

[drtom]

Vitamin C supplementation in much greater doses than found in the diet does not seem to hurt in part because Vitamin C rapidly disappears from the blood stream (is used up). But recently I have had doubts about taking huge amounts to combat coronary artery disease (repair, prevention, etc.) and mental problems like Alzheimer's disease, anxiety and depression, etc. Inflammation is the underlying problem, which means that it is not nearly enough to just supplement with Vitamin C.

What I was trying to emphasize is that the CAUSE of much of the adverse inflammation that is responsible for so many of our diseases is from too much glucose being consumed too many times a day, whether by eating too much glucose (sugar) or food substances that are rapidly converted to glucose (starchy and refined carbs, grains, etc.). On the carnivore diet where there is little to no glucose consumption, the glucose that is generated from gluconeogenesis is sufficient for the body's needs and, as far as we know does not cause the damage that excessive amounts do. This article is very good about how the brain responds to this chronic glucose "bath" that most are exposed to in the Standard American Diet (SAD) and what we can do about it NOW:

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog ... tal-health

[jimmylesante]

Drtom i agree with you it is not enough to just take a pill to heal chronic issues whether it is metformin or a vitamin.
One needs to reduce or stop the intial damage, mainly being done by sugars and trans fats.
Going carnivore may in the short term work but in itself may cause inflammation and other damage without the protective effects of fruit and vegetables.
Fruit provides exactly what the liver needs.
Vitamin C reduces inflammation and should be taken daily, preferably with fruit or vegetables.

[johnjackson]

Going carnivore may in the short term work but in itself may cause inflammation and other damage without the protective effects of fruit and vegetables.

not at all
a keto or "carnivore" diet has very little nutrition and is a lot higher in fat than simply eating a high starch diet(not man made foods) that is loaded with nutrients AND very little fat
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyRuDpqYuvY

Dr. McDougall Webinar: The Dietary Treatment of Cancer

the best diet is one that is high in carbs, but carbs from natural foods. ie fruits/veggies

btw, the keto diet is very deceptive in terms of "weight loss
stored sugar, glycogen, holds water

when you stop eating sugar/carbs, you lose this water, so you lose water weight.

[pamojja]

[pamojja]

[johnjackson]

[quote="pamojja"]

Whenever I see anyone promoting any one single diet or abstinence, be it vegetarian or purely carnivore, low-fat or high-fat to everyone, I can only disagree. ]. Just as most religions. We are all different, and your shoe-size doesn't fits mine. Any person in question oneself is in the best position by experimenting with different lifestyles, observe their effects also with lab-testing, to learn which size fits best at any time.

Take me as example. Been low-fat almost vegan for 30 years when I got PAD and a 60% walking-disability. Just adding in eggs, fish and high-fat along with comprehensive supplementation reversed that walking-disability. I just wouldn't do that well on meat only, or less fats. And I wouldn't want to follow anyone's religion, unless benefits experienced through clinical experimentation myself.[/quote

not really
the main issue is what you are doing, these broad terms, "vegan" vegetarian, liberal, "conserattive, etc, dont mean a whole lot
ghandi was a vegetarian,, skinny as a rail
i know vegetarians who are fat
bob harper(tv trainer) in shape, lean,. works out, had a heart attack

dietary guidlines are crap, you need to have a goal and a path to get there
what was the cause of your PAD? how did eggs and fish/fat reverse it?
or was it the supplements?
since PAD is Atherosclerosis, Id love to hear how fish/ high fat cursed that?

I used to have a lady at my job, ate tons of dark chocolate cause it was "healthy"

Labels dont help...

I agree that SOMETIMES broad generalities or as you say " promoting any one single diet or abstinence" is a bad thing
Sometimes
but not always
....like people not drinking diet soda and suddenly losing wieght....
no, thats crap
but not 100% cutting out TRANSFATs? yeah, thats a good thing