Vitamin C Forum

Thank you for the link/paper. Dr. Levy includes a chapter in STOP AMERICA'S #1 KILLER devoted to Chondroitin Sulfate, which is where I first learned of its value for heart disease.

The problem relating the above paper to humans is that we are "knockout-GULO" beings. Our defect is not being able to produce ascorbate (vitamin C). Recently, Dr. Rath and his team has studied GULO-Knockout mice, with results that support the Pauling/Rath unified theory.


Am J Cardiovasc Dis. 2015 Mar 20;5(1):53-62. eCollection 2015.
Hypoascorbemia induces atherosclerosis and vascular deposition of lipoprotein(a) in transgenic mice.
Cha J1, Niedzwiecki A1, Rath M1.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=vitamin+C%2C+lipoprotein(a)+and+atherosclerosis+by+John+Cha+GULO+mice


youtube direct link

ofonorow wrote:[b][color=#000080]Thank you for the link/paper. Dr. Levy includes a chapter in STOP AMERICA'S #1 KILLER devoted to Chondroitin Sulfate, which is where I first learned of its value for heart disease.

is that worth adding to the PT ?

I use and tell others to do PT
5+ gramsAA spread over the day
lysine/proline(5+ grams)
vitk2

anything else?

thanks!

I mean, i know Levys says
-make sure hormones are in range
-vit D stats
-TSH status
-

johnjackson wrote:is that worth adding to the PT ?

Here an article of an old clinical experience with chondroitin sulfate: http://knowledgeofhealth.com/the-man-wh ... rol-drugs/

If its worth adding depends if PT alone is working for you. The only way to know for sure are repeated CAC scores, or ultrasonography of max. CIMT, or arterial examination in the cath lab. All other blood-markers including Lp(a) are only 'risk-markers', which only mean you're at somewhat higher risk, but don's show if plaque growth is progressing or regressing at all.

So without taking at least one of these imaging tests, one can't know Pauling therapy is really working. Unless debilitating symptoms, like angina pains, walking pain, etc. is indeed remedied with Pauling therapy right away.

pamojja wrote:

johnjackson wrote:is that worth adding to the PT ?

Here an article of an old clinical experience with chondroitin sulfate: http://knowledgeofhealth.com/the-man-wh ... rol-drugs/

If its worth adding depends if PT alone is working for you. The only way to know for sure are repeated CAC scores, or ultrasonography of max. CIMT, or arterial examination in the cath lab. All other blood-markers including Lp(a) are only 'risk-markers', which only mean you're at somewhat higher risk, but don's show if plaque growth is progressing or regressing at all.

So without taking at least one of these imaging tests, one can't know Pauling therapy is really working. Unless debilitating symptoms, like angina pains, walking pain, etc. is indeed remedied with Pauling therapy right away.

ok I get what you are saying, I think,,,

so even if I have low Lp(a), to get the best picture of whether I have heart disease, i needed a CAC?

One of my friends had an Lp(a) test done, it was high...she started on PT
9grams AA
vit k2
niacin
lysine/proline
1.2 grams MG

she'll get retested in october and if the Lp(a) is lowered, then PT is working, if it is not, does that mean PT is not working?

johnjackson wrote:she'll get retested in october and if the Lp(a) is lowered, then PT is working, if it is not, does that mean PT is not working?

A low or high Lp(a) only shows the 'risk' is different, it doesn't show if plaque is regressing or progressing. Only imaging does.

pamojja wrote:
A low or high Lp(a) only shows the 'risk' is different, it doesn't show if plaque is regressing or progressing. Only imaging does.

so my Dad has a-fib and low lp(a), I dont know if it was measured or calculated.

but he is at low risk for a heart attack, even without imaging?

imaging only shows if plaque is changing?

I dont like CTs, can a CAC be done with MRI? I think so
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3259311/

but what will change my PT ? nothing, right? if i have a high CAC or low CAC, I'll still do what I'm doing
taking 10+ grams AA
vit k2
grams of lysine/proline

pamojja wrote:

johnjackson wrote:but he is at low risk for a heart attack, even without imaging?

That would be the case if Lp(a) would be the only risk factor. Sadly, there are too many things which can damage the endothelium and start the repair process of plaque-growth. Here a list of factors by a very knowledgeable cholesterol-skeptic:

sure, dont forgot being shot!??
or asteroid falling on someone's heads?

Lots of things cause death/heart attacks, but I'm talking about things we can measure,
we can measure CAC/lp(a)
so low Lp(a) then yeah, for a blockage, he is at a low risk of heart attack

johnjackson wrote:sure, dont forgot being shot!??
or asteroid falling on someone's heads?

Lots of things cause death/heart attacks, but I'm talking about things we can measure,

The most people die of is either calcification of arteries or cancer at old age. The only test which measures calcification is imaging, not Lp(a). Your friend has no disease of calcification if he measures it. Lp(a) doesn't measures calcification.

pamojja wrote:The most people die of is either calcification of arteries or cancer at old age. The only test which measures calcification is imaging, not Lp(a). Your friend has no disease of calcification if he measures it. Lp(a) doesn't measures calcification.

so would calcification of arteries be "heart disease"?
cause cdc says heart disease is #1 killer, so that would make sense.

No, he has no calficication in his heart and he has low Lp(a)
low Lp(a) mean low risk of heart attack BUT
but he has not have any imaging done, EXCEPT echo of his heart, which showed no calcification.

so I'd say he is pretty much in the clear
but I have him on
lysine/proline
k2
vit C
MG(1200mg/day since he has a-fib, but no attacks in last 6 months since increasing MG