My PT Journal (stroke)

The discussion of the Linus Pauling vitamin C/lysine invention for chronic scurvy

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Robert
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Re: My PT Journal (stroke)

Post Number:#16  Post by Robert » Mon Feb 24, 2020 8:21 am

Hi farside, why do you think your vegan diet failed to prevent the stroke? May I ask whether you got down to 140 cholesterol typical vegan levels.

I had a scare doing one arm kettle bell presses x 5 rep sets. On my drive home I had a blue light in the middle of my vision and rushed to an optician asap. Anyway at 55 my muscle mass has remained satisfactory for decades whatever I do.

I recommend The Cardio Code: Limitless Cardio-vascular Health and Performance by Kenneth Jay 'who holds a Master's degree in exercise physiology with a specialty in cardiovascular function and a PhD in Sports Science.' He's a massive guy who's known mainly for kettlebells but now does real cardio. His book documents the problems strength athletes have with back pressures and heart thickening and has phenomenal cardio protocols: the deep academic research and biometrics from all the types of athletes and trainees.

Well we're both doing veganism and Pauling Therapy so perhaps so we can be optimistic about the future.

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Re: My PT Journal (stroke)

Post Number:#17  Post by farside » Mon Feb 24, 2020 11:09 am

I have updated my stack and included further info, below.
Since I suspect my kidneys aren't performing as well as they should, I have included some kidney supplements.
Those supplements particularly good for stroke or for kidneys have been tagged [stroke] and [kidneys] respectively.
All other supplements are for cardiovascular / arterial health.
The supplements that I actually take are in bold.
I hope this list is useful to people! Any mistakes are mine.

=== PT regime ===
Vit C as ascorbic acid : 15 to 18 g/day in ~4 doses
Lysine powder : ~8g / day
Proline capsules : 2g / day
Vit K2 (trans form) : 300mcg/day
Vit E (gamma form is best) : 400iu/day

=== Other supplements: ===
Hydrolysed collagen : 10g/day
Raw material for making collagen.
16 grams of collagen daily for six months significantly reduced measures of artery stiffness.

DMSO : 50% solution, 2x10ml topical [stroke]
Crosses the brain barrier, does the work of min 100 meds with none side effects.
Can dissolve clots that are causing stroke.

Vit D3 : 2x4000iu / day [stroke][kidney]
Works with K2 to move calcium from arteries to bones.

N-Acetyl-Cysteine : 1 to 2g/day [stroke][kidney]
Powerful antioxidant, building block for glutathione
May protect the lungs, gut, brain, liver, and kidneys
Lowers both homocysteine and high blood pressure
Treats severe cases of kidney disease

Zinc : 30mg (elemental)/day
Growth and tissue repair. But too much adversely affects lipid profiles

Strong B complex (with methyl versions of B12 and folic acid)
General health, reduction of homocysteine levels.

Magnesium : 600mg elemental/day
Needed by many enzymes.

Liposomal Alpha-lipoic acid : 600mg/day [stroke]
Antioxidant and anti-inflammatory, helps to regenerate both fat and water-soluble antioxidant vitamins.
Improves mitochondrial function.
Promotes the activity of other antioxidants such as glutathione and coenzyme Q10.

Gastrodin (Tian Ma) extract : 250mg/day [stroke]
Protects neurons, assists stroke recovery.
I have run out!

PQQ : 10mg/day [stroke]
Increases mitochondrial DNA levels.
Partially repairs, prevents, or renders harmless various other forms of damage such as amyloid beta or alpha synuclein.
Aids growth of neurons.

Artichoke extract 2x500mg/day
May lower LDL cholesterol and increase HDL cholesterol
Assists NO production
Lowers blood pressure
Reduce plaque by inhibiting LDL oxidation

Astragalus (Huang Qi) [stroke][kidney]
Boosts the Immune system, antioxidant and anti-inflammatory, improves heart function and kidney function
Reduces Creatinine Kinase levels
Could enhance functional recovery in stroke patients
Slows down telomere shortening rate, reduces DNA damage and improves DNA repair ability,
Stem cell enhancer.
Fights fatigue.

Astaxanthin 12mg/day [stroke]
Powerful anti-oxidant.
Can enter the blood-brain and blood-retina barrier.
Activates FOXO3 longevity gene.

Vegan EPA+DHA : 2x300mg /day [stroke]
Essential fatty acids.
Improves blood lipid profiles.

Pine bark extract / Pycnogenol : 2x100mg/day [stroke]
Antioxidant and anti-inflammatory.
With Arginine and citrulline, boosts nitric oxide production.
Relieves blood vessel problems. improves cognitive function. May lower blood pressure.
Affects platelet coagulation, or 'thins' the blood

Hydroxytyrosol (in olive leaf extract) : 50mg / day
Extremely powerful antioxidant.
Lowers blood pressure, preserves blood vessel function.
Lowers blood fat (total cholesterol, LDL cholesterol, and triglyceride) levels.
Decreases LDL oxidation

Arginine 4g/day and citruline powder 3g/day:
Converts to nitric oxide.
Citruline is a precursor to arginine.

Aged garlic : 2x600mg/day [stroke]
Protects neuronal cells against beta-amyloid (A) toxicity and apoptosis.
S-allyl cysteine in aged garlic extract inhibits enzymes involved in cholesterol production.
Increases the production and function of nitric oxide, which relaxes blood vessels and lowers blood pressure.
Prevents platelets from binding to proteins (fibrinogen) that form blood clots
Increases compounds (cAMP) that inhibit platelet formation

Black / fermented garlic [stroke]
Increases HDL (good) cholesterol levels, lowers blood pressure.
Decreases blood clotting effects caused by platelet aggregation.
Stronger antioxidant than raw fresh garlic, but lower anti-inflammatory, anticoagulation, anti-allergy, and immune effects

Glycine : 3g/day [stroke]
Dilates the microvessels in the brain by up to 250%
Improves health of skin (Collagen peptide contains a lot of glycine)
Reduces symptoms of obsessive-compulsive disorder.
Reduces damage due to future strokes, precursor to glutathione.

Tri-methyl glycine : 1g/day
Assists methylation
Reduces homocysteine levels

Pantethine (also known as vitamin B5) - at least 600mg/day
Body makes it from pantothenic acid.
Precursor to coenzyme A, which regulates cholesterol synthesis.
Supports healthy LDL-HDL balance.
Supports adrenal glands
Supports liver detoxification
Helps regenerate skin cells.
(Bacteria in the large intestine can naturally produce calcium pantothenate)

DHEA 50mg/day, cycled [stroke]
Increases NGF and BDNF production, neuronal cell proliferation, neuronal cell survival, and neurite outgrowth.
But can raise blood pressure.

Panax notoginseng (Chai-Jen-Shen) [stroke]
Injections might increase the chance of a person improving or recovering after a stroke.
Anti-atherosclerosis.
Anti-myocardial ischaemia.
Anti-vascular aging, Anti-brain aging.

Cordyceps sinensis (Dong Chong Xia Cao) [kidney]
Potential to decrease serum creatinine, increase creatine clearance,
Reduce proteinuria and alleviate CKD‐associated complications.

Salvia Miltiorrhiza Bunge (Danshen, red sage, Chinese sage, tan shen) [stroke][kidneys]
Oral dosage of Danshen (the dried root) ranges around 10-30g/day
Prevents the development of CVD.
Lowers blood presure.
Improves atherosclerosis.
Protective effects on the kidney.
Combined with notoginseng and borneol to make Danshen dripping pills.

Ji-Sheng-Shen-Qi-Wan (herbel mix) [kidneys]
Rehmannia Radix-Prepared (Shu Di Huang) 19.05%
Poria Cocos (Fu Ling) 14.29%
Dioscorea Rhizoma (Shan Yao) 11.90%
Cornus Fructus (Shan Zhu Yu) 11.90%
Paeonia Cortex (Mu Dan Pi) 9.53%
Alisma Rhizoma (Ze Xie) 9.53%
Achyranthes Radix (Huai Niu Xi) 7.14%
Plantago Semen (Che Qian Zi) 7.14%
Aconitum Radix-Baked (Fu Zi-Baked) 4.76%
Cinnamomum Cortex-Older (Rou Gui) 4.76%
Nourishes the Kidneys.
Promotes urination, reduces edema.

Fructus Corni (Cornus / Asiatic Cornelian Cherry Fruit / Dogwood Fruit / Japanese Dogwood Berry) [kidneys]
Light-headedness, dizziness, soreness and weakness of the lower back and knees or impotence due to Kidney and Liver.
Steamed Cornus Zheng Shan Yu primarily tonifies the Liver and Kidneys.

Roselle (hibiscus) tea [kidneys]
Increases uric acid excretion, prevents the buildup of stone-causing minerals.
In rats, hawthorn flavonoids (procyanidins) cut the blood levels of uric acid.
Lowers blood pressure.

Punarnava (Spreading Hogweed / Boerhavia Diffusa / Huang Xi Xin) [kidneys]
Diuretic.
Significantly reduces the blood creatinine and urea level.

Lespedeza capitata [kidneys]
Possibly an inhibitor of angiotensin converting enzyme (ACE)
So increases diuresis and reduces concentration of urea in the blood while keeping electrolyte balance.

Tribulus Terrestris (Land Caltrops/ Gokharu / Bai Ji Li) [kidneys]
Not effective if consumed with tomatoes, potatoes, bell peppers, eggplant
Stimulates kidney cell regeneration

Chicory (Chichorium Intybus / Ju Ju) [kidneys]
Treats nephitis

Red Sandalwood (Lal Chandon / Pterocarpus Santalinus / Hai Hong Dou)
- Revives kidney function

Crataeva Nurvala (Varun) [kidneys]
Prevents urinary track infections.
Helps breakdown stones.

Stone Root (collinsonia canadensis) [stroke][kidney]
Dissolves stone accumulation anywhere in the body, including heart valves, kidneys and bladder and circulatory system.
Reduces water retention (swelling).
Removes excess uric acid in the urine.
Relieves constipation.

Couchgrass (Elymus Repens, Agropyron Repens) [kidneys]
Usually taken internally as a tea.
Remedy for urinary tract infection, cystitus, urethritis.
Good cleansing herb.

Drumstick (Sahjan / Moringa oleifera / la Mu) [kidneys]
Treats dysuria

NOTE: I have removed acetyl-L-carnitine.
Although its benefits include fueling energy production in your cells, nerve function support and may reverse brain and nerve damage, I stopped taking it because of an article which said:
"Our bodies partly metabolize carnitine into trimethylamine-N-oxide (TMAO), which may promote plaque build-up in blood vessels (atherosclerosis). In a study of over 2,500 people, those with higher blood levels of L-carnitine had increased rates of heart disease"

Edited 15Mar2020 : Added Pantethine to the list
Last edited by farside on Sun Mar 15, 2020 8:00 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: My PT Journal (stroke)

Post Number:#18  Post by farside » Sat Feb 29, 2020 7:14 am

I recently added Cordyceps Sinensis and Punarnava to my stack.

It is a lot of supplements, but I am kind of throwing everything I can at this!

I have been on the regime now for 1.5 months.
Although my energy levels have improved, I am nowhere near my normal levels.
Mornings are especially tired, picking up as the day goes on.
My Doctor says stroke victims usually suffer from tiredness for between 12 to 18 months.

I am cutting the Punarnava dose in half, as today I was especially tired, because I'm thinking it has lowered my blood pressure too much (this morning it was 110/66 - similar to the Yanomami indians!!) and I'm not used to it being that low. I'm also feeling light headed.

Strangely, my bowel habit has changed since being on the regime - normally I am very regular, but there have been mornings of being constipated. Maybe I need to raise the VC dose?

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Re: My PT Journal (stroke)

Post Number:#19  Post by farside » Sat Feb 29, 2020 7:36 am

Robert wrote:Hi farside, why do you think your vegan diet failed to prevent the stroke? May I ask whether you got down to 140 cholesterol typical vegan levels.


ofonorow in post #2 made several suggestions about why the vegan diet failed. I think 2 years of vegan diet wasn't enough to completely undo 50+ years of non-veganism. At the time of the incident, I was under a lot of stress, and this certainly contributed.

Interestingly, I had a few minor 'retinal migraines' a couple of days before the stroke. This is where you see zig-zag coloured lines expanding in the field of vision.

The carotid blockage was said to be long-standing, but I don't understand how they deduced that. Two years ago, the blockage may have been worse than that for all I know, and the vegan diet may have been helping to contain it (or reverse it? see the thread http://vitamincfoundation.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=14763).

While there are case studies that show vegan diets can reverse arterial disease, the other factor missing was that I wasn't consuming enough VC and I wasn't consuming any additional lysine. We know that these two can reverse arterial disease.

My total cholesterol reading taken shortly after the stroke was 5 (this is the UK NHS measurement scheme, and a 5 means normal or average). See https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/high-cholesterol/cholesterol-levels/

I believe as you that vegan + PT gives us the best chances. I think it is important to include hydrolysed collagen as well, though.

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Re: My PT Journal (stroke)

Post Number:#20  Post by Robert » Sat Feb 29, 2020 10:57 am

Thanks farside. Interesting. The conversion for total cholesterol UK to US is x 38.6; so 5 is 193. Mine was 5.4 or 208 mg/dl when I volunteed for some hospital trials years back to lower cholesterol using Alpro soy milk. Mine was elevated but they wanted even higher cholesterol people for their trial.

I am fully committed to using Pauline therapy to increase my long term chances against CVD. However I do not reject the mainstream medical views on cholesterol especially LDL. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 9704007168
The normal low-density lipoprotein (LDL) cholesterol range is 50 to 70 mg/dl for native hunter-gatherers, healthy human neonates, free-living primates, and other wild mammals (all of whom do not develop atherosclerosis). Randomized trial data suggest atherosclerosis progression and coronary heart disease events are minimized when LDL is lowered to <70 mg/dl. No major safety concerns have surfaced in studies that lowered LDL to this range of 50 to 70 mg/dl. The current guidelines setting the target LDL at 100 to 115 mg/dl may lead to substantial undertreatment in high-risk individuals.


I was told to expect a dramatic drop in cholesterol within weeks of going whole food plant-based vegan and I 100% expected what my lipids tests would go on to show: 3.6 total cholesterol ( which 139 mg/dl], 2.05 LDL (79 mg/dl). So I'm definitely going to strive towards the Journal of the American College of Cardiology numbers. I can't see how veganism can reverse anything until we have the "normal" levels of <70 mg/dl. Then again there is some interesting research on endothelial progenitor cells [EPC] rejuvenating the blood vessel walls and even enabling the construction of new blood vessels from plant super foods.

An aside, I just read in one of Dr Greger's tomes to exercise caution with high oxylate greens (I love my spinach) for those of us on mega doses of Vitamin C. :(
Last edited by Robert on Sat Feb 29, 2020 11:38 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: My PT Journal (stroke)

Post Number:#21  Post by Robert » Sat Feb 29, 2020 11:34 am

The JACC paper has a chart. I understand Linus Pauling said humans don't make their own Vitamin C and the levels we are meant to take are calculated from mammals. Surely, cholesterol in neonates, primates and mammals can point us to our normal physiologic levels too. And yeah, not from poisonous statins.

Image

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Re: My PT Journal (stroke)

Post Number:#22  Post by farside » Wed Mar 04, 2020 1:56 pm

Great stuff Robert! I believe you will get there!

There is still a controversy regarding the 'Lipid theory' of CVD vs the 'Pauling theory'. Certainly if lipids are very low, the body won't be very efficient at making plaques. But it also becomes inefficient in making other needed fats.

Conventional medicine subscribes to the lipid theory, hence statins.

I would like to think that all we really need to do is just ingest VC and lysine, and not worry about the diet.

So far, I have been feeling very tired in the mornings.

A vegan diet lacks EPA and DHA, and vegans are recommended to take these as supplements (e.g. in algae oil). The question is how much, for I have been taking algae oil. But I suspect as one gets older, one needs more. Maybe 1g/day?

Now I recently read that a lack of essential fatty acids has the following effects (clinical and subclinical) :

Clinical signs of essential fatty acid deficiency include a dry scaly rash, increased susceptibility to infection, and poor wound healing
Also noted : excessive thirst, frequent urination, poor night vision, sensitivity to bright light, poor concentration, depression, excessive mood swings or undue anxiety, difficulties in settling at night and waking in the morning, fatigue.


Those are some of my symptoms, so yesterday I thought - to hell with it, I am going to start eating sardines and take fish oil supplements!
Interestingly, I did feel a bit more energised as a result - but it is still too early to say, as I need it to work into my system, esp. if I have had a long term deficiency. Then again, I could be barking up the wrong tree!

I wonder what the cholesterol level is for big cats?

I haven't had my lipid levels measured since starting PT, so I hope things are progressing in the right direction.
Blood pressure is currently around 110/65 - happy with that!

PS. I have also started drinking distilled water ...

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Re: My PT Journal (stroke)

Post Number:#23  Post by Robert » Wed Mar 04, 2020 7:38 pm

Great blood pressure! Something in your incredible supplements stack is hitting the bullseye. I get where you're coming from with the sardines. My father drank a third bottle of high strength Cod Liver oil daily for decades! he's now 35 years older than his dad's age at death (by heart attack). I'd like to know my own omega-3 status. I plan on doing a medichecks postal test at some point.

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Re: My PT Journal (stroke)

Post Number:#24  Post by farside » Thu Mar 05, 2020 1:19 pm

A drawback in eating canned sardines is in consuming BPA from the tin linings. But some manufacturers do try to minimise or eliminate it.

According to Dr Greger's "How not to die" book, eating fish insults the kidneys (causes acid load) the worst, and there are risks with mercury and other pollutants.

Trade one problem with another!

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Re: My PT Journal (stroke)

Post Number:#25  Post by farside » Sat Mar 07, 2020 1:25 pm

BP today was 106/61.

Today and yesterday felt light headed, no energy, and feeling anxious.
Still manage to do 30 mins bike in the mornings each day, though.

Interesting anecdote, Robert, regarding Cod Liver Oil. I did some quick googling to find:

100g fish oil : DHA 12g, EPA 18g
100g cod liver oil : DHA 10g, EPA 7.6g
100g Seven seas max strength cod liver oil (sold mixed with fish oil) : DHA+EPA = 19.3g

The supposed problem with cod liver oil is taking too much Vit A:
100g of cod liver oil contains 30,000ug (100,000iu) of vit A
Upper limit is supposedly 3,000μg/day (10,000iu/day) i.e. about 10g of oil/day (~two teaspoons)

I think bottled liquid fish oil is better than capsules. To get a therapeutic minimum of 3g EPA a day, you need at least 10 or more capsules/day, but only 3 teaspoons of oil. Also, the capsules are more prone to oxidation (greater surface area).
Last edited by farside on Sat Mar 07, 2020 1:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: My PT Journal (stroke)

Post Number:#26  Post by farside » Sat Mar 07, 2020 1:28 pm

I have been asked by my GP to have an echo-cardiogram. This will take place in the next few weeks, will report results here.

My main interest, though, is in having a carotid ultrasound which won't happen for a few months yet (to see if the blockage is resolving).

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Re: My PT Journal (stroke)

Post Number:#27  Post by Robert » Sat Mar 07, 2020 2:39 pm

My father who drank a 1/3 bottle of Cod Liver oil for decades (20 g of Omega-3 fats daily!) actually liked the taste. He drank it from the bottle! He was annoyed when Seven Seas added another fish oil as an ingredient because it repeated on him for the first time; he says to drink Pure Cod Liver Oil. Dad had no problems with the ridiculous Vitamin A intake. He stopped a couple of years back because he had a gall bladder attack: he was rushed to hospital thinking he was having a heart attack. He had surgery and no longer consumes fat so freely and is back to full health.

Personally, I'm with Dr William C Roberts: I believe we are herbivores. Eating meat, fish and dairy (and processed crap) is like putting petrol in a diesel car. I just don't want my body filled with putrescine and cadaverine. And we need vitamin C because carnivores produce it, herbivores don't according to Dr Roberts. Curiously Roberts reportedly eats fish, perhaps he finds veganism too spartan. https://letthemeatmeat.com/post/5239388 ... roberts-md

Good luck with the pending tests.

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Re: My PT Journal (stroke)

Post Number:#28  Post by farside » Sun Mar 08, 2020 10:02 am

Interesting that Linus Pauling recommended supplementing Vit A at 20,000 to 40,000 IU / day.
That is at least twice the (supposed) upper limit!

Edited 15Mar2020 :
One might consider just taking cod liver oil instead of fish oil + Vit A + Vit D. I think the main advantage of taking the latter is that the fish oil is usually heavily processed to remove organic and metal pollutants. Not so sure about cod liver oil.
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Re: My PT Journal (stroke)

Post Number:#29  Post by farside » Mon Mar 09, 2020 8:13 am

Yesterday I rubbed in a mixture of 50% DMSO with a few grams of VitC and lysine dissolved.
Felt quite energised. But it left a sticky residue, and a peculiar smell, due to the lysine.
I know this, because today I tried the same, but left out the lysine. But not so energising, unfortunately.

I will be adding 20,000iu of Vitamain A / day from now on.

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Re: My PT Journal (stroke)

Post Number:#30  Post by farside » Wed Mar 11, 2020 11:53 am

Also tried rubbing in a mix of 50% DMSO with a gram of proline around the neck.
Next day the left side felt like it got bruised, so I don't recommend anyone tries this idea.


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