I need help understanding this...

[J.Lilinoe]

are you happy with TC at 156?
Because if that was my TC, I don't think I would be feeling well for long. Too low is not healthy IMO.

[HAdriven]

I don't think I would be feeling well for long.

I didn't know one could "feel" cholesterol levels. And frankly, I don't know what to think about what levels are appropriate.

One of the most frustrating things about this whole situation for me is that it FEELS like a coin toss as to what to believe.

[Dolev]

A lot of nutritional decisions will feel like a coin toss, because many opinions are out there and seem to be in conflict. To resolve this dilemma and arrive at some concrete conclusions demands serious study. A true conflict exists in matters where there are two opinions based on solid evidence and rationality. There truly are matters like this in the field of nutrition. However, most conflicts can be resolved. In many cases, in-depth examination will clarify that many things that are said are complete nonsense. Many opinions are based on some old and poorly conducted research which has been disproven. Many opinions have flimsy basis, which has been embellished and promoted by commercial interests. In many cases, human knowledge has not progressed enough to resolve the conflict. In many cases, what is true for one person may not be true for another person because of biochemical individuality. In many cases, conflicts are not real, since the opinions stated are not talking about the exact same thing.

As to "feeling cholesterol": One cannot feel his cholesterol level like feeling whether you are hot or cold. However, cholesterol has many vital functions. It is the building block from which many hormones are constructed. It is a major factor in regulating the liquidity of cell membranes, which in turn affects the actions of many proteins in the membranes. (Cell membranes are sort of like the "brain" of the cell). Cholesterol makes the skin waterproof and prevents dehydration, as well as being the precursor of vitamin D production in the skin. Cholesterol is the substance from which many digestive juices are formed (with the necessary help from vitamin C, by the way), so it aids digestion. From all this, it is not difficult to imagine that when the level of cholesterol is too low, the person will not feel very well.

I have seen in my own patients and have heard from other practitioners, that people with low cholesterol, below perhaps around 165, become depressed. First statins, then Prozac, then Viagra.

[HAdriven]

I have seen in my own patients and have heard from other practitioners, that people with low cholesterol, below perhaps around 165, become depressed. First statins, then Prozac, then Viagra.

OK. This got my attention.

I'm dropping the TriCor tomorrow and will see where the numbers go next Sunday. I'll also note differences in the way I feel.

[J.Lilinoe]

I know someone who's cholesterol is that low thanks to statins for the past 2 years and suffers from memory loss, atrophied muscles, has to use a walker, can't swallow properly and doesn't have the energy anymore to exercise. Statins are slow killing poisons IMO.

[HAdriven]

I know this looks like I'm some sort of hypochondriac, but I actually had occasion to test again the day after my previous results. A cholesterol test was included in a special bundle of tests I purchased through HealthCheck USA for other reasons. So here are those numbers, 24 hours after the set I just posted on Sunday:

Cholesterol = 137
Trigs = 99
HDL = 43
VLDL = 20
LDL = 74

At this point, I'm starting to suspect significant variations in the numbers are not only possible over short periods of time, but may in fact be the norm. I'm also wondering whether significant changes are possible from one day to the next, or even during the course of a single day. (I can't really conclude that in my own case yet. Of the 5 sets of tests I have, only 2 were preformed by the same machine and the other 3 were each preformed at different labs.) But nonetheless, I think it safe to assume some significant variation is possible over very short periods of time.

This of course makes me realize that most physicians are deciding treatment based on a single roll of the dice. I'm now developing the view that unless an average of several frequent tests are considered, the numbers from any individual test aren't terribly meaningful.

If the test strips weren't so damned expensive, I'd test everyday for a couple of weeks to prove my suspicion.

Oh well.

On another note, I inadvertently put myself in a position where I have missed both of my statins for the last two days in a row. I was planning on just phasing out the TriCorp this week, but now guess I'm doing the Crestor as well.

I'll see what happens and post here.

[ofonorow]

It would help to post the scores side/by side so we don't have to scroll back.

I know that when people used the LifeStream cholesterol monitor, they noticed large variations, sometimes depending on the type of wine they drank the night before.

[HAdriven]

OK, so I'm 6 days fully off the MEDs and you can see the dramatic swing in the TC number. (Incidentally, I am using a CardioCheck device.)

Date...........TC...........HDL............Trigs...........LDL-Calc...........VLDL-Calc..........TC/HDL Ratio..........LDL/HDL Ratio
..............125-200......>39............<150............0-100..................8-43.................0.0-5.0..................0.0-3.5
4/30/08.......237..........30.............1359
6/16/08.......129..........41.............97...............68.6....................19.4..................3.15.....................1.67
6/22/08.......178..........39.............78...............123.4...................15.6..................4.56.....................3.16
6/29/08.......156..........37.............101..............98.8....................20.2..................4.22.....................2.67
6/30/08.......137..........43.............99...............74.2....................19.8...................3.19....................1.73
7/6/08.........230..........49.............113.............158.4...................22.6..................4.69.....................3.23

I have to say, based on this little experiment, I'm not very convinced that my vitamin C supplementation has anything to do with any of these numbers. I find that disappointing.

The HDL and Trig numbers I attribute to my diet. Thoughts anyone?

[Ralph Lotz]

The cholesterol numbers game is a trail that leads to increased death by strokes and cancer and even heart attacks. Lowering cholesterol using statins also damages the brain and increases memory loss.
People with the highest cholesterol levels live the longest.

[HAdriven]

Ralph Lotz:

Please clarify something for me. Does your reply speak to the irrelevancy of cholesterol numbers, the use of statins to lower them, or both?

[J.Lilinoe]

Where is your C-reactive protein number?
or your homocysteine number?


Statins only lower your LDL cholesterol and total cholesterol and maybe could have some effect on inflammation BUT it has too many bad side effects (muscle wasting, memory loss, cancer, heart failure) to be worth taking. In other words, it works against the body's normal functions. Remember, only ONE person out of 100 taking statins over 3 years will benefit from not dying of a heart attack. ONLY ONE. For every person that it saves from having a heart attack, it kills the same amount of people with its side effects. VERY BAD AVERAGE IMO.

On the other hand, Vitamin C has way more benefits and is responsible for 300 functions in the body.

I would go with what is safer for my body and statins aint it.

[carlp]

In regards to statins, I just stopped taking Simvastatin after being on it for several years. I have to say for me, I suffer from great memory loss. I find it difficult to concentrate at times, and my memory just isn't what it used to be. I'm hoping that maybe it will reverse, but only time will tell. Right now, I'm at 30 grams a day of vitamin C, 1000mg Lysine, and 100mg CoQ10. Soon, I will be adding Proline 500mg /day, and also garlic.

[Dolev]

carlp,

I suggest adding phoshatydlserine to your regimine.