Near Bowel Tolerance

This forum will focus on the interesting topic of titrating oral vitamin C intake to so-called bowel tolerance, the point just prior to the onset of diarrhea

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ascorbicjoe
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Near Bowel Tolerance

Post Number:#1  Post by ascorbicjoe » Mon Jan 23, 2006 7:40 pm

Having only recently discovering V-C at therapeutic levels, I am curious about how my body reacted to my agressive ramp up. At about 4-5g/day over 2 doses I felt near bowel tolerance, then I normalized. I pushed it to 8-12 grams over 3 doses and also felt near the tolerance level, then I normalized again. I am trying to be conservative, but wonder should I go further? Note that over this period I have had no illness, flu, cold or whatever.

I understand from Pauling's Live Longer and Feel Better book that many chemical processes in our bodies just stop with low V-C and when you give yourself more some of these processes increase and your body will need more on a consistant basis. I see the foundation states 3g per day, but some users are up to 30g per day, I am curious how comfortable people are with the levels they choose for themselves. Being new to this I am uncertain to trust my judgement.

I was just curious about others experience with your tolerance growing over time.

davids

Re: Near Bowel Tolerance

Post Number:#2  Post by davids » Mon Jan 23, 2006 8:36 pm

AJ,

My reasoning is as follows:

1) Some animals produce up to 19 grams of ascorbic acid a day regularly, and up to 100 grams under stress.

2) I assume we humans are under more stress than most animals, both physically, e.g. diet, etc., and emotionally/psychologically.

3) Intravenous sodium ascorbate has been said by Dr. Cathcart to be [probably] 2 to 3 times more effective, gram for gram, than ascorbic acid taken orally.

I conclude the following from the above:

1) 2 to 3 times 19 grams = 38 to 57 grams a day [of ascorbic acid orally].

2) If our body is absorbing the ascorbate (vs. passing it along to the colon), it must want/need the ascorbate for its own purposes (and so the need not to be concerned with how much we are ingesting, but just let the body "decide" [via the "bowel tolerance" method of dosage "calculation"] how much it wants/needs at any particular moment).

Just my viewpoint,

David

Ken_RN

Post Number:#3  Post by Ken_RN » Wed Jan 25, 2006 7:37 pm

Early on, my own tolerance did ramp up in a series of plateaus much like your own seems to be doing. It's leveled off at about 15-20 grams per day. I could probably go a little higher if I chose a more frequent dosing schedule, rather than the 3-5 grams 3-5 times per day I'm dosing now.

I can't give any scientific explanation for that racheting-up like effect of tolerance early on except to reiterate Pauling's own conclusion as I understand it that our bodies become less miserly, so to speak, in their metabolism of ascorbate when large supplies are present.

In one of the Dr. Cathcart videos that Owen has on this site at http://vitamincfoundation.org/videos/, Cathcart does mention the phenomenon of increasing bowel tolerance over the long term. He attributes this to the extra oxidative burden carried by the body over time in the form of "gremlins" like chronic low-level inflammations and infections. One such infection that is almost pandemic and often unnoticed or uncared for I think is gum disease/gingivitis.

Cathcart also writes in his http://www.orthomed.com/titrate.htm:

There is a certain dependency on ascorbic acid that a patient acquires over a long period of time when he takes large maintenance doses. Apparently, certain metabolic reactions are facilitated by large amounts of ascorbate and if the substance is suddenly withdrawn, certain problems result such as a cold, return of allergy, fatigue, etc. Mostly, these problems are a return of problems the patient had before taking the ascorbic acid. Patients have by this time become so adjusted to feeling better that they refuse to go without ascorbic acid. Patients do not seem to acquire this dependency in the short time they take doses to bowel tolerance to treat an acute disease. Maintenance doses of 4 grams per day do not seem to create a noticeable dependency. The majority of patients who take over 10-15 grams of ascorbic acid per day probably have certain metabolic needs for ascorbate which exceed the universal human species need. Patients with chronic allergies often take large maintenance doses.

The major problem feared by patients benefiting from these large maintenance doses of ascorbic acid is that they may be forced into a position where their body is deprived of ascorbate during a period of great stress such as emergency hospitalization. Physicians should recognize the consequences of suddenly withdrawing ascorbate under these circumstances and be prepared to meet these increased metabolic needs for ascorbate in even an unconscious patient. These consequences of ascorbate depletion which may include shock, heart attack, phlebitis, pneumonia, allergic reactions, increased susceptibility to infection, etc., may be averted only by ascorbate. Patients unable to take large oral doses should be given intravenous ascorbate. All hospitals should have supplies of large amounts of ascorbate for intravenous use to meet this need. The millions of people taking ascorbic acid makes this an urgent priority. Patients should carry warnings of these needs in a card prominently displayed in their wallets or have a Medic Alert type bracelet engraved with this warning.


Perhaps I should get one of those medic-alert bracelets that says "ascorbate freak" on it or something more clinical sounding. :)

Guest

Post Number:#4  Post by Guest » Wed Jan 25, 2006 9:48 pm

Ken,

THanks for pointing it out. Seriosly, this is important, lets think of a clinical sounding message to be put on a card or bracelet.

davids

Medical Bracelet

Post Number:#5  Post by davids » Thu Jan 26, 2006 10:13 am

Hi Guys,

I considered doing this years ago, and decided the BIG problem is that undoubtedly the bracelet (for Ascorbate) would be simply ignored, i.e. we could not possibly know more than they, and/or not understood and/or there would be no Ascorbate available anyway.

Just my two cents worth,

David

Ken_RN

Re: Medical Bracelet

Post Number:#6  Post by Ken_RN » Thu Jan 26, 2006 12:26 pm

davids wrote:Hi Guys,

I considered doing this years ago, and decided the BIG problem is that undoubtedly the bracelet (for Ascorbate) would be simply ignored, i.e. we could not possibly know more than they, and/or not understood and/or there would be no Ascorbate available anyway.

Just my two cents worth,

David

My experience with physicians says you're right. I can imagine some poor ER resident in a university hospital having to explain his chosen treatment of you to the ER Chief.

"You gave him what?!"
"Well the bracelet said..."

No. I don't think the bracelet will be much good. If there's one thing doctors hate it is looking stupid in front of other doctors. Emergency medicine is performed according to widely accepted protocols and "best practices." This is done to mitigate liability. Much of medicine is decided based on liability minimization. Unless you are a sailor just stepping off a time-machine and showing outright signs of acute scurvy then ascorbate won't even be considered.

Sad but true. :(


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