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AnaKat wrote:I'm just wondering why it is important to stay out of ketosis when using the B5 protocol? Thanks!
AnaKat wrote:
I'm just wondering why it is important to stay out of ketosis when using the B5 protocol? Thanks!
Ive been buds with him for 15 yrs and when I asked him about what Owen said,
Ie
Leung's discovery and theory is that when the body produces ketone bodies, it is stealing CoEnzyme A from other metabolites, producing ketone bodies as a byproduct. However, if there is enough CoA (and for that there must be enough B5 in the diet) the body does not have to steal CoA, so the ketone byproducts are not produced. (I can quote Dr. Leung on this from his papers, but I'm not sure it will be much clearer.)
To my knowledge, the idea that the production of ketone bodies is a byproduct of a coenzyme A deficiency, resulting from a vitamin B5 deficiency is original and no one else discusses this idea. Everyone else considers ketosis a "normal" product of fat metabolism.
Leung tested his theory, and ran a study of 100 people over the course of 1 year. The diet would usually put the subject in ketosis in 1 or 2 days, but while on the 10,000 (some times 20,000) mg of vitamin B5, these subjects were monitored but did not go into ketosis
Kelly said:
He could be right but I don't think theres any benefit from NOT going into ketosis. That's kinda no mans land in ketosis energy goes up, appetite goes down etc. If you're eating low carb and not in ketosis you will probably feel like absolute s##t and be totally starving
wow, how things have changed though butI'm not reading anything about Leungs diet being so great? I dont understand what makes it special?
low calories/no ketosis=weight loss
low calores/ketosis=weight loss
ofonorow wrote:
There is no "Leung diet." He didn't specify the diet, only that it was carefully planned to provide adequate nutrition and that it contained 1000 calories per day. In the paper, Leung said that the diet would normally cause people to enter ketosis in 2 to 3 days. While the weight-loss/ketosis angle seems to be generally unknown, there are alternative doctors applying high vitamin B5 for his other discovery, that acne was also a fault of lipid metabolism, same coA deficieny problem, and can be cured with high vitamin B5.
We have made contact with Peter Defty, who trains champion ultra marathon (100 mile) athletes by helping them become "fat adapted." An athlete that burns fats, rather than carbs, has a reserve of 40000 KCal (body fat) versus 2000 KCal (glycogen stores). Now these athlete's ketosis is already quite low, but we have been discussing Leung's theory, and Peter has agreed to help us evaluate high vitamin B5 on himself and his Ultra atheletes. (Normally, an athlete requires 2 to 3 weeks to become "keto" or fat adapted. We are wondering if high B5 can reduce that changeover, perhaps make fat burning almost instantaneous. In any event, we should know soon if high vitamin B5 can make super fat-burning athletes even better.
it seems I am not getting what is going on here
what is the point of extra B5?
I THINK that you are
cause it prevents going into ketosis?
and by puttings people on a low carb diet they can burn fat,,,unlike a carb based diet where a person won't burn fat, they burn carbs, and then when they run out of carbs/glycogen, they do what?
are you telling me that you can only burn glycogen or fat, and the only way to lose fat is to not have any glycogen in the body?
I would love to think more B5 would have some great fat burning properties
I have only heard of/used ancillaries such as
clenbutoral
2,4 dinitrophenol
epherdrine/caffenine stack
bitter orange synephrine
nicotine
Id love more b5 to help me shed fat , but it's not going to
the 1000 calories/day(and here I thought you said counting calories didnt give weight loss!!) is going to work
just like it did on the HCG diet---https://www.healthline.com/nutrition/hcg-diet-101
or any diet that causes weight loss
s usual, you keep missing the point. Few, if any, people can maintain a 1000 calorie per day for a year. Why? Because of hunger and weakness. If someone could, I agree, they wouldn't necessarily need extra mega vitamin B5. B5 helps the body adjust to a low calorie diet, and encourages efficient fat burning (and yes, without the inefficient production of ketone bodies).
And for the upteenth time, of course your body will start burning stored energy when the need for energy exceeds the amount of energy (calories) eaten. Duh. Never denied that, only that that need changes over time. So someone on a low calorie diet will eventually start to gain weight - unless the body weight set point is adjusted.
you think your diet will get people lean by adding B5, not because it helps burn more calories, but because when people diet, they get,"hunger and weakness"
LOLZ I admit, you cracked me up with that one!
Leung wrote:Here, I wish to propose a theory that relates the formation of ketone bodies under such conditions to a deficiency in dietary pantothenic acid. Supplementation of this vitamin would facilitate complete catabolism of fatty acids and thus the formation of ketone bodies could be circumvented. As a result, a sufficient amount of energy would be released from storage fat to relieve dieters of the sensation of hunger and weakness which otherwise would be difficult to endure.
so you are saying that more B5 will help people avoid "hunger/weakness" which is why they can't stay on a diet?
why do you eat? do you eat only cause you are hungry? or is eating FUN? or what we do socially?
I never said, only eat X number of calories forever, as I explained to you, but you deleted or just ignored.
if your body is on a non sugar diet, so you have no glucose,
the ketones are made for the brain to eat
the brain doesnt run on anything cept glucose.sugars or KETONES,right
yeah, you said counting calories was going to end up in failure
love to see anything that says you are changing the body's set point
but you arent talking about set point, your claim is more b vitamins will help keep somone on a diet cause it won't allow them to be "weak or get hungry".....
I'm gonna start having out B vitamin packets to co-workers at lunch, no reason to eat food, take some B-vitamins!!
ofonorow wrote:Right.. Counting isn't the issue. But going on a diet to reduce calories will inevitably fail over time, unless the body weight set point is readjusted in the brain. Fung cites experiments were prisoners were overfed to gain weight, and after the over feeding stopped, the prisoners all lost weight on their normal diet until they reached their "weight set point."but you arent talking about set point, your claim is more b vitamins will help keep somone on a diet cause it won't allow them to be "weak or get hungry".....
I'm gonna start having out B vitamin packets to co-workers at lunch, no reason to eat food, take some B-vitamins!!
As crazy as this sounds, you aren't far off. You are describing fasting, and yes, B5 will help with fasting, although once the body has fat adapted, meaning has begun burning fat rather than carbs, hunger and weakness generally subside.
And vitamin B packets aren't the ticket. They probably contain 5 mg of B5. We are talking 10 grams, or 10,000 mg of vitamin B5
people have to be on low carbs to lose fat?
again, this dude lost fat while eating high sugar/fat junk food
http://www.cnn.com/2010/HEALTH/11/08/tw ... index.html
it was measured. and he counted calories
simple calorie restcition works well to lose weight
and then making sure you dont eat too much helps keep the weight off
you are telling me that B vitamins(grams) will make you not hungry?
what else do b vitamins do?
the whole change your set point is nonsense, diet coke will change your set point
so will EC stack or nicotine,, if my "change your set point" you mean make you not hungry
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