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Lifespan of Vit. C , lysine & proline in water
Posted: Sun Oct 21, 2012 2:00 pm
by jpoww
is it ok to mix my daily intake of lysine, vit.c and proline in a bottle of water and sip on it throughout the day. Or will it lose potency or somehow break down?
Re: Lifespan of Vit. C , lysine & proline in water
Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 8:39 am
by skyorbit
My understanding is that the half-life of VC in Water in about half an hour, as it starts oxidizing.
On the other hand, your body can recycle oxidized vitamin C and make it active again. also Oxidized VC does have uses so it's not completely lost.
I doubt you have the same problem with Lysine or Proline, as they're not so reactive, but I don't know.
Tracy
Re: Lifespan of Vit. C , lysine & proline in water
Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 9:17 am
by ofonorow
When vitamin C "breaks down" - it can break down further than the "oxidized" form, and would not be recoverable. (See the Sherry Lewin book diagrams at our main site if anyone is curious about details.)
However, the higher the concentration in water, the less it breaks down, and maximum loss is 50% in four hours. (Meaning half the vitamin C remains).
Also, the aminos can "chelate" the vitamin C, protecting it. (See Sherry Lewin).
So all in all, add a little extra vitamin C to your drink - and it will probably be fine.
Re: Lifespan of Vit. C , lysine & proline in water
Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 10:11 am
by Saw
Re: Lifespan of Vit. C , lysine & proline in water
Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 12:38 pm
by skyorbit
I forgot about the Protein Chelation process. When I was saying half hour, I was simply referring to oxidation, so that's better information.
Tracy
Re: Lifespan of Vit. C , lysine & proline in water
Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 4:17 pm
by jpoww
If I put my days worth of vit. c=18,000mg
my days worth of lysine= 6,000mg
and my days worth of proline-2,000mg in a water bottle and drink it all day your saying I only have to worry about the vitamin c losing half its potency in 4hrs? the other two aminos would be fine all day?
How much more extra vitamin c should I add to be safe that I will ensure i'm getting my 18,000mg per day?
Re: Lifespan of Vit. C , lysine & proline in water
Posted: Mon Oct 22, 2012 10:21 pm
by skyorbit
jpoww wrote:If I put my days worth of vit. c=18,000mg
my days worth of lysine= 6,000mg
and my days worth of proline-2,000mg in a water bottle and drink it all day your saying I only have to worry about the vitamin c losing half its potency in 4hrs? the other two aminos would be fine all day?
How much more extra vitamin c should I add to be safe that I will ensure i'm getting my 18,000mg per day?
Well, if it takes you 8 hours to drink it, that means that assuming you don't drink any of it, there will only be 9,000 after 4 hours, and then only 4,500 after 8. Of course it's gone by then hopefully.
I would say multiply it by 1.5. or put 27,000 in it. You'll drink it at a higher concentration earlier in the day, (But bowl tolerance is higher earlier when you haven't had any.) half way through the day (assuming you've drunk half of it) you'll have a quarter of the C left because half of the half will have destabilized.
It seems like a good estimate to me.
I'd have to figure out the exact half-life formula.
TRacy
Re: Lifespan of Vit. C , lysine & proline in water
Posted: Tue Oct 23, 2012 3:27 am
by jpoww
ok thanks I will go with 27,000 mg for now. If you figure out the half life let me know. thanks
Re: Lifespan of Vit. C , lysine & proline in water
Posted: Thu Oct 25, 2012 5:24 pm
by pamojja
ofonorow wrote:However, the higher the concentration in water, the less it breaks down, and maximum loss is 50% in four hours. (Meaning half the vitamin C remains).
Also, the aminos can "chelate" the vitamin C, protecting it. (See Sherry Lewin).
So all in all, add a little extra vitamin C to your drink - and it will probably be fine.
So if complexing with proteins protects ascorbic acid from oxidizing in water, wouldn't a mineral ascorbate like sodium ascorbate protect it even better due to complete 'chelation'?
Re: Lifespan of Vit. C , lysine & proline in water
Posted: Sat Oct 27, 2012 8:29 am
by ofonorow
pamojja wrote:So if complexing with proteins protects ascorbic acid from oxidizing in water, wouldn't a mineral ascorbate like sodium ascorbate protect it even better due to complete 'chelation'?
Great point/question.
Sherry Lewin writes that vitamin C in the "gut" breaks down in the presence of carbohydrates, but can be protected (made more bioavailable) in the presence of protein (amino acids.) (I fixated on this given the remarkable success of the PT products - which combine vitamin C w/lysine. We didn't realize it, but preserving the vitamin in the gut may play a big role in the remarkable success of these drink mix products.) The pH of the stomach is low, but very high in the small intestine. pH in water is probably neutral.
As far as breakdown measurements in water, I'll have to reread the book to see what experiments have been done visa vis sodium ascorbate, and perhaps the rate of break down is less than ascorbic acid? But, I am sure chemists out there will point out that even sodium ascorbate - disassociates in water, depending on concentration, temperature and perhaps other factors, becoming ions of ascorbate and sodium.
In any event there seems to be a steady state - at 50%, so at least half the vitamin is preserved in water.
Re: Lifespan of Vit. C , lysine & proline in water
Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 5:48 pm
by jpoww
ofonorow, does lysine and proline break down in water if its sitting in water for 8hrs or more?
Re: Lifespan of Vit. C , lysine & proline in water
Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 6:03 pm
by ofonorow
Unknown (by me) but unlike vitamin C - (which is highly reactive and breaks down quickly) - lysine and proline are amino acids, or the the normal product of the break down of proteins. My guess is that they (amino acids) remain stable in water. Might be worth a literature search if you really want to know.
Re: Lifespan of Vit. C , lysine & proline in water
Posted: Tue Jan 01, 2013 10:24 pm
by Johnwen
ofonorow, does lysine and proline break down in water if its sitting in water for 8hrs or more?
I'll try to help here. If you purchase the Water Dissolving type and the PH of the water is at 7 yes it will last if the PH is lower it will begin to breakdown to it's base product which has no nutrional property's. So it's not a good idea to mix it with V-C. If your just cracking Capsules your totally wasting your money especially if your mixing it with V-C in the water these break down a lot faster in lower ph water. There completly different process's used in making these products. One is made to dissolve in water they both then break down in the stomach acid or any acid that is lower then their initial acid level. I don't think you want to hear about carboxylation or electron alignment. So check out your local Muscle Head vitamin store I'm pretty sure you'll find something that works in water but not with V-C mixed with it.
Re: Lifespan of Vit. C , lysine & proline in water
Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 8:18 pm
by jpoww
Johnwen, the vitamin c is not mixed with the proline and lysine. the lysine and proline are powders that I mix together in water with my powdered mulit vitamins and minerals and I sip that thru out the day. Then I mix my vitamin c powder with water seperatly and drink that several times a day
Re: Lifespan of Vit. C , lysine & proline in water
Posted: Mon Jul 01, 2013 12:00 pm
by jpoww
I posted this before but after re-reading this post i'm now uncertain about the lifespan of lysine and proline in water.Is it ok to mix the lysine and proline in water and sip on it all day long?