exitium wrote:blade wrote:how did you determine that lugols/selenium had an impact on your a-fib? Having a concrete change would be very useful to keep him eating shrimp/and/or taking more pills/
Well, because I used to have multiple episodes daily where I could feel my heart missing beats (easily verified by taking pulse) as well as times when it would race for no apparent reason. Now after over a year of supplementation it happens maybe once a week.
that makes sense,,I had a similar experience with using "4 hour energy", and having an odd feeling going on, (my recent cardiologist(4 months ago) agreed it causes heart issues, but I had stopped long ago.)
AND I started taking ore Magnessium
exitium wrote:An ideal test is tough, especially for older folks. A skilled practitioner and a 21 point skin caliper is probably the best you will find short of hydro weighing but those folks can be hard to find. An easy fairly accurate test would be to see if anyone has a "bodpod" in your area. If you goto their website you can seach for places in your area that have them.
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yeah, the issue is my parents live 5 hours away from me and they have loose skin.
There is a bodpod at my old college, I'm gonna schedule him for the next time I see him...lol odd you and I had the same idea, but there just arent that many options
exitium wrote:
There are a myriad of reasons why someone can have low T and while I dont think anyone can say without a shadow of a doubt they are all nutritionally related I would wager most of them will benefit to some degree from supplementation. This is where a lot of people seem to get hung up, they are looking for a smoking gun, they want to identify a single reason but that often detracts from finding a solution.
In a perfect world trying o get the nutrients we need from food would be the ideal solution the fact is with the food often comes a lot of toxins which destroy nutrients. Additionally due to the nutritional needs of some folks, for example those in early stages of arterial sclerosis, need say 6-10 grams of vit C per day. Its just not realistic to get that from food alone..
as I told the other dude in the other thread, I dunno
Would proper nutrition stop aging? IF you had 100% of all the vitamins/minerals/loving you need prevent you from having grey hair?
or prevent a women from dealing with menopause?
no, it's epigentics, switches turning on/off in the body, ie aging that cause these changes to happen
http://www-tc.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/educati ... _genes.pdfand if it is because of some missing "nutritional" element, then how do I go about finding it, without spending time and money that arent available?
HRT is shown to help lower A1c and fix lowT, both of which are harming him now.
exitium wrote:Symptoms arising from nutritional deficiencies can take months, years or even decades to manifest and likewise can take months or years to reverse. When I have worked with folks such as yourself I often encounter folks who claim "they have done everything" or "my diet is spot on". What I discover is there version of "spot on" is much different than mine.
For example, you said he doesnt supplement potassium, iodine or selenium. Now maybe your dad does get enough potassium from diet but its very likely he is iodine deficient. Personally I have been on 50mg a day for a year and a half. Japans average intake is around 12mg yet here in the US they say we only need 150mcg....no wonder we are a nation of fatties!
Additionally I have found the form of B vits many people use is inferior. What form of B12 is your father taking and how much? What about folate, niacin etc?
Ive been an avid lifter for almost 30 years now, I never took nutrition too seriously, at least not until my performance in the gym really started to suffer and I was diagnosed with afib. Sure I read thousands of pub med articles, many of which claimed this supplement or that one had no effect on this condition or that condition. But thats not where I stopped. One has to go back to the basics. What makes the body tick? Identify what happens within the organism when (insert name of any essential nutrient here) is withheld from the diet? Since this is the vit C forum we will use that. Pauling in his research and collaboration with other doctors have done a pretty good job of describing the role ascorbic acid plays in arterial health. While I have seen a lot of professionals in the medical community write off pauling therapy as a joke, I have never seen anyone effectively dispute the role ascorbic acid plays in arterial health or the process by which it functions. After all every doc on the planet will recognize and admit scurvy is real so why wont they admit that there are shades of grey between being 100% health and having scurvy?.
The pillls are an issue. but I have him on a few already(although my mom makes sure he takes them....LOL don't think he's some invalid, I think Im making it out like he is,
he's a highly respected,. practicing lawyer, and plays poker a lot..)
I wonder about the gym
He loves to do HIIT at the gym, since his gym has tvs in front of the machines, I have given him a detailed workout rountine, but have no idea how much effort he puts into his lifts.
Yeah, doctors arent all that smart(I know from being friends with a bunch of them from school) . Doctors might admit scurvy is real,, but they forget the cure, on the Terra Nova Expedition. a team of British scientists who took a three year journey to the South Pole, and packed nothing but biscuits, canned fat, cocoa, butter and sugar, which was supplemented by their horses when the starving time came. Despite the fact that it was almost 200 years after the cure for scurvy was discovered by one of their own damned countrymen, they were plum baffled when everyone got scurvy.
http://www.cracked.com/article_18533_th ... orgot.htmlI added that just cause it's amusing.
exitium wrote:
Now your not going to find a bunch of articles in peer reviewed journals showing pauling therapy works so if thats your benchmark you very well could be condemning yourself to heart disease. At the same time however there are plenty of independent papers written by doctors that support pauling therapy and countless individual case studies and anecdotal claims from individuals around the globe that it works.
The above scenario in essence applies to every essential nutrient out there. There are shades of grey between 100% healthy and the point at which a clinical diagnosis of a deficiency will be made. The majority of the doctors out there do not seem to recognize the myriad of problems that can arise by being "in the grey area" nor do they seem to realize that a lab range applies to a population and only loosely applies to an individual. One example of this is the BMI(body mass index) that docs throw in your face nowadays. The BMI is a means to assess a population but when applied to the individual can be very misleading. For example according to the BMI, I am OBESE! If I alter the numbers I put into the BMI calculator, subtract the lbs of fat I am carrying from my overall weight and input that number number instead of my real weight (ie what I would weight if I had no bodyfat) and guess what???? Im still obese! How could someone with zero bodyfat be obese??.
I wanted studies about a very specific case.
I have ever seen any that adding X to the diet increases Testosterone.
unless X is Testosterone.. so I am left with an older man(66) who has high A1C/afib/LowT.
so do I add the obvious supplements, yes and he takes them(the best ones, found via consumerlabs)
do I start adding odd things? Yeah, Im adding shrimp/idoine.
but to just add things to get numbers, which are all in range, more in range/higher than range?
that's news to me and he may not have time to find a "natural" cure, .which is likely just plain impossible.(recall about vitamins preventing gray hair/menopause)
you've lifted 30yrs?
BMI is a great scale for those who don't lift... if you lift, it doesnt apply
exitium wrote:
Carrying that example over to lab ranges for hormones, lets look at testosterone, normal, depending on lab, will vary a bit but is typically in the 300-1000 range. I think we can all agree that most of us would prefer test levels more at the high end than the low end BUT regardless of where we sit, most of the time if we are in that range we are considered fine and healthy. However MANY men with test near the low end of the range suffer a myriad of low T symptoms.
Long story longer using lab ranges, unless clearly outside, as the sole guide to ones health is often not an accurate means of judging health, especially if there are symptoms to the contrary. With that in mind, above you stated his thyroid labs are fine however you have also stated he has symptoms, either directly or indirectly, that link to thyroid function. Now we all have the choice to blindly follow the lab ranges and what the FDA says we need as nutrition or we can expand our boundaries based on our understanding of the role nutrients play in our health and supplement accordingly.
So whats my solution you ask? Its a well thought out and complete supplementation plan using proper forms or nutrients and from proper manufacturers. Not all supplements are created equal, even if consumer labs say the product meets label claims. For example I have tried half a dozen B12 sources and only 1 of them seems to be effective for me. If you think your plan is perfect and are running out of ideas as to what could be the problem then its time to go back and reevaluate your plan.
Testosterone should be at a minimum of 400 I think to prevent stuff from happening
but it varies a lot because more important that total T is the T/E ratio
estradiol should be 20-30pg/ml
both high and low E cause issues and is thought to cause cancer,
I gave this link before but
http://www.lef.org/Magazine/2008/12/Des ... er/Page-01Ive done a lot of research on it and I'm pulling more research because my dad has low T and high E2, giving him a rato of less than 7
His endocrinologist wont give him Test, which i agree with, as the 1st issue needs to be lowerin his e2(44)
which will likely raise test
you want a T/E ratio of about 30-50
going back and looking at my plan? why? I have yet to try HRT, why is that not a good plan?