Diabetics and heart dz
Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 2:12 pm
Why do diabetics have a higher risk of heart disease if the cause of heart disease is lack of VC?
Vitamin C Forum
http://www.vitamincfoundation.com/forum/
Diabetics and heart dz
http://www.vitamincfoundation.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=11747
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Re: Diabetics and heart dz
Posted: Sat Feb 21, 2015 8:54 pm
There is no such thing as 1 cause = 1 effect.
Re: Diabetics and heart dz
Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 12:02 pm
What tjohnson_nb said.
Besides who says the cause of heart disease is VC???
Besides who says the cause of heart disease is VC???
Re: Diabetics and heart dz
Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 1:04 pm
jimmylesante wrote:What tjohnson_nb said.
Besides who says the cause of heart disease is VC???
I mean 'lack if VC'. On phone while driving,
I have read many places diabetics get CAD more frequent
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3860928/
Re: Diabetics and heart dz
Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 3:00 pm
Sugar and vitamin C are linked.
Dr. John's Ely's Glucose Antagonism Theory holds that vitamin C and glucose share the same (insulin mediated) pathways from the blood through the membrane into cells.
Furthermore, because diabetics generally have higher levels of glucose in their blood, and there is preferential entry for glucose, less vitamin C makes it.
Furthermore, as Thomas Smith discovered reading the old "hidden science, (healingmatters.com), Type II diabetes is often a cell membrane condition (caused by poor fats in the diet.) This condition impairs transport of glucose into cells (and would probably impair vitamin C) and probably explains many of the problems of diabetics - such as increased heart disease, amputations, etc.
I'd love to find copies of Ely's papers since they are no longer under his account at the University of Washington.
Dr. John's Ely's Glucose Antagonism Theory holds that vitamin C and glucose share the same (insulin mediated) pathways from the blood through the membrane into cells.
Furthermore, because diabetics generally have higher levels of glucose in their blood, and there is preferential entry for glucose, less vitamin C makes it.
Furthermore, as Thomas Smith discovered reading the old "hidden science, (healingmatters.com), Type II diabetes is often a cell membrane condition (caused by poor fats in the diet.) This condition impairs transport of glucose into cells (and would probably impair vitamin C) and probably explains many of the problems of diabetics - such as increased heart disease, amputations, etc.
I'd love to find copies of Ely's papers since they are no longer under his account at the University of Washington.
Re: Diabetics and heart dz
Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 5:41 pm
Until about WWII, when drug companies realized they needed more customers, heart disease and
"type 2 diabetes" were considered to be one and the same. The rather arbitrary splitting into two conditions, with two sets of specialists and treatments, led to a great increase in cash flow.
Owen-
Ely's papers are all over the place. I have noticed that I've had trouble finding them at UWA, but they are out there. I have copies of many. Hoping that he is still with us and well!
FRM
"type 2 diabetes" were considered to be one and the same. The rather arbitrary splitting into two conditions, with two sets of specialists and treatments, led to a great increase in cash flow.
Owen-
Ely's papers are all over the place. I have noticed that I've had trouble finding them at UWA, but they are out there. I have copies of many. Hoping that he is still with us and well!
FRM
Re: Diabetics and heart dz
Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 7:43 pm
With diabetes and vc
Should a diabetic do pauling therapy diffrent?
Should a diabetic do pauling therapy diffrent?
Re: Diabetics and heart dz
Posted: Sun Feb 22, 2015 10:42 pm
Re: Diabetics and heart dz
Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 7:40 am
gofanu wrote:. Hoping that he is still with us and well!
FRM
Ely passed in 2011 at age 88.
I did find this paper searching for Dr. Ely's obituary. ( I thought I had posted recently that he passed away in 2011).
http://orthomolecular.org/library/jom/1999/articles/1999-v14n03-p143.shtml
Looking for the obit - I did find this biography of Dr. Ely
https://www.csom.ca/wp-content/uploads/ISOM-News-29.2.pdf
Another paper by Ely
http://www.orthomolecular.com/?ctr=article&act=show&id=28
On page five of this PDF - it shows Ely was born in 1923 and died in 2011.
http://www.orthomolecular.org/hof/hof2014.pdf
So, 88 years old? I know he suffered from mercury poisoning.
Re: Diabetics and heart dz
Posted: Mon Feb 23, 2015 12:26 pm
A study showing improvement of diabetes with supplementation of only 1000 mg of Vit C - imagine what saturating your system would do! 
http://medind.nic.in/iby/t07/i11/ibyt07i11p471.pdf
http://medind.nic.in/iby/t07/i11/ibyt07i11p471.pdf
Re: Diabetics and heart dz
Posted: Tue Feb 24, 2015 2:41 am
Sorry to hear Prof Ely is gone, we are so much the poorer. A truly great mind of science.
I do not have any GAA paper as such; all I find is an abstract available:
Protein Glycation: Ascorbate Antagonism.
Bulletin Amer Physical Society, 33(3):296, 1988 (abst).
C9 1 Protein Glycation: Ascorbate Antagonism. J.T.A. Ely, U Washington, G.A. Warner, Northwest Oncology Clinic, D.H. Read & G.A. Santisteban, Seattle U -- Loss of elasticity and solubility, and degradation of other physical properties of proteins and nucleic acids have been reported to result from non enzymatic glycation as well as the associated cross-linking. (1). We present evidence that glycation of hemoglobin is significantly antagonized in animals and humans by pharmacologic daily supplementation of ascorbate at 50mg/kg and above. We explain that : (1) the antagonism is expected to be even stronger for other proteins; and (2) continuous elevation of ascorbate may be necessary for effective antagonism. We discuss the possible relevance to aging , birth defects, cancer, cataracts and other lesions.
*Supported by Northwest Oncology Foundation.
1. A. Cerami, H. Vlassara & M. Brownlee, Scientific American 256(5), 82 (1987)
But, the idea and applications are explained in many of his papers, with varying details. I have copies but most of the links are to his old U-Wa site. I suppose I could simply send you my whole folder (15 papers), if you give me an address.
re diabetes/VC
Unrecognized Pandemic "Subclinical"Diabetes of the Affluent Nations:
Causes, Cost and Prevention
John T. A. Ely, Ph.D.
Journal of Orthomolecular Medicine, 1996; 11(2): 95-99.
FRM
I do not have any GAA paper as such; all I find is an abstract available:
Protein Glycation: Ascorbate Antagonism.
Bulletin Amer Physical Society, 33(3):296, 1988 (abst).
C9 1 Protein Glycation: Ascorbate Antagonism. J.T.A. Ely, U Washington, G.A. Warner, Northwest Oncology Clinic, D.H. Read & G.A. Santisteban, Seattle U -- Loss of elasticity and solubility, and degradation of other physical properties of proteins and nucleic acids have been reported to result from non enzymatic glycation as well as the associated cross-linking. (1). We present evidence that glycation of hemoglobin is significantly antagonized in animals and humans by pharmacologic daily supplementation of ascorbate at 50mg/kg and above. We explain that : (1) the antagonism is expected to be even stronger for other proteins; and (2) continuous elevation of ascorbate may be necessary for effective antagonism. We discuss the possible relevance to aging , birth defects, cancer, cataracts and other lesions.
*Supported by Northwest Oncology Foundation.
1. A. Cerami, H. Vlassara & M. Brownlee, Scientific American 256(5), 82 (1987)
But, the idea and applications are explained in many of his papers, with varying details. I have copies but most of the links are to his old U-Wa site. I suppose I could simply send you my whole folder (15 papers), if you give me an address.
re diabetes/VC
Unrecognized Pandemic "Subclinical"Diabetes of the Affluent Nations:
Causes, Cost and Prevention
John T. A. Ely, Ph.D.
Journal of Orthomolecular Medicine, 1996; 11(2): 95-99.
FRM
Re: Diabetics and heart dz
Posted: Wed Feb 25, 2015 1:21 pm
Thank you, but before you do that, lets make sure they aren't available online - somewhere. I need to contact the Univ of Washington and see if they will let us have Ely's login so we can preserve his files (as we have preserved Dr. Cathcart's).