Vitamin C and Chest Pains

[Christabelle67]

Hello, I've been taking Vitamin C L-Ascorbic Acid powder with a little juice for some years now since learning about it from this forum and it helped me incredibly so. Last year when I would go to bed and lay down I would get 'chest pains', like palpitations and had numerous tests to find out what the cause is, a slight murmur yes, but told nothing that required medication. Left it at that, but the chest pains continued, then I wondered if it were reflux caused by the VitC, this was tested, and nothing conclusive. I decided to stop taking the Vitamin C and the 'chest pains' stopped promptly.

BUT I like taking the VitC, as I did not once get sick with viruses or flu even when everyone else around me was dropping in bed like flies! The first time in years, I am not on VitC I ended up in hospital for 10 days with Pneumonia, while on holiday overseas! When I got home, I decided to go back on the VitC and within a couple of weeks I noticed the 'chest pains' started again, I stopped taking the VitC for a few more weeks and started up again and still the same thing would happen, so have stayed off. I am not happy about it and very conscious of not taking my VitC, what am I missing here, or should I be taking a different kind of VitC or dose?

Appreciate any advise.
Warm regards
Christel

[majkinetor]

If acid reflux is indeed a case, I suggest you taking C with meals. You may also want to try sodium ascorbate ( you use baking soda, half of the C dosage ) or maybe with some minerals like magnesium (mg-C is IMO the best C variant)

You can also try to use smaller but more frequent doses. If acid reflux is the problem, try to minimize taking before sleep but do more when you are in walking/standing posture as gravity will prevent some of it.

You can try lipospheric vitamin C and see how it affects you. Liveonlabs is expensive but there are cheeper versions around.

[Christabelle67]

Thank you, I completely forgot about the baking soda!! I had done so for several years and had no problems while doing so. Will do so again and the other tips shared. Searching for the Lypo-spheric Vit C, what a great product! See if I can find a supplier in Australia.

Appreciate your quick response.
Warm regards
Christel

[majkinetor]

No problem Christel.

Let us now how it worked out.

[NiacinVC]

so whats the result? Chest pains gone?

[Christabelle67]

so whats the result? Chest pains gone?

Unfortunately no , after just a few days, had to stop taking it again. Will wait until I can get some of the other product and see how I go on that one. Very disappointed but not a lot I can do in regards.

[pamojja]

I have an other experience with chest-pain. Though very anecdotal and never heard something similar from anyone else.

Years ago I would always get chest-pain whenever under physical - and more so - mental stress. Then came a serious peripheral arterial disease (PAD) against which I started the Pauling protocol by slowly increasing to the recommended amounts of nutrients in the course of about half a year. Thereby it turned out that only with the recommended 6 gram of C and lysine each, also the pain-free walking distance improved for the first time. Beside other positive side-effects like a persistent skin rush disappearing, also by additionally tiltrating up to my bowel tolerance (50 g/d at that time), and my hay-fever having gone, as I found out the next spring.

But the most surprising dose-dependent effect was that whenever taking more than 150mg of CoQ 10 (half of that for ubiquinol) also my chest-pain never came up. On the other hand, whenever I try to decrease the CoQ 10 dose below 150 mg the chest-pain comes back a few days later, and at times the same day.

Though at that time I was really glad to have found a handle on that chest-pain caused by any stress - on the other hand it really signified a worsening of the condition, because before high dose vitamin C and CoQ 10 there where long periods without any chest-pain, while now I only have to decrease the CoQ 10 dose and the chest-pain comes with certainty - without being caused by any stress.

With your experience it now seems worthwhile for me to stop the high dose vit C for a week or two, to see if my chest pain now could maybe be caused by high dose vit C somehow too? - And how CoQ 10 relates to it then. While it might be worthwhile for you to try Co10, if you don't take any already?

[Christabelle67]

Hello Pammoja

Very interesting! I like everything about CoQ10 and have recommended this to many people I know (from what I learned about it working well with VitC here and elsewhere), except for self, because I am on warfarin (3 years now) due to multiple blood clots on both lungs, which apparently is not to be taken with CoQ10 because it acts like Vit K which causes thickening, another thing that frustrates the living daylights out of me! The blood clots have since cleared, but a recent change in hospitals I am still awaiting follow up to be taken off the warfarin, (originally was told I would be on it for life, so fingers crossed I can get off it).

I found the chest pains/palpitations most significant when lying down. Soon as I stop the VitC it goes. I'd been taking VitC for about 5yrs at least with this issue only coming up in the past 2 years, so hence the disappointment in having to stop, when I'd had really good health outcomes prior.

I absolutely love the VitC, and just have to find a product that works with me, rather than against, soon as I do I will be on to it pronto.

[pamojja]

Are you sure?? Who told you so? - I very much doubt that CoQ 10 would interfere with warfarin - are you aware how much warfarin itself could cause hardening and calcification of the artheries - and is a much likelier co-factor for your chest-pain (compare 5 yrs on vit C, 3 years on warfarin, and only since 2 years chest-pain!).

edit: checked sources, according to 'Micro-nutrients - metabolic tuning, prevention, therapy' (by Groeber, 2010): on ground of structural similarities of CoQ 10 with vitamin K2, a diminished effect of warfarin (lowering of INR) seems possible (therefore monitoring of the INR under medical supervision is advised).

Similar for the interaction of warfarin and K vitamins: with more than 250mcg of dietary vitamin K the INR has to monitored closely and the dose adjusted accordingly. Very rare cases experienced some interaction on such low doses of 25mcg vit K. The individual differences probably come from polymorphisms of cytochrom P450 CYP2C9, since this enzyme is responsible for the elimination of warfarin. With respect to unwanted interaction a daily dose of 100mcg is considered secure. In studies with 1 mg warfarin after 7 day undercorboxylated Osteoclacin has been raised upto 170%, therefore a higher risk for osteoporosis with vitamin K antagonists can't be rulled out.

[pamojja]

A paper on warfarin and vitamin K, and possible alternatives to warfarin:

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/clc.20865/pdf

[Jacquie]

I had had intermittent chest pains starting sometime when I was in high school. They seemed to be more common during periods of stress, but sometimes I'd go months without having any. They were never severe, but they were... well, somewhere between uncomfortable and painful. Hard to describe. Eventually I learned (while taking my pulse) that my heart was skipping a beat during each peak of the pain.

This year when I started high-dosing C, I noticed the pains came a little more often. Then after I started taking more magnesium, they backed way off. Long story short, I discovered I could trigger or eliminate them based on how much magnesium I had taken in the preceding 24 hours. So now I make sure I take 1000 mg - 1500 mg daily, and have no more chest pains and skipped beats.

Edit: There's more info about Warfarin and vitamin K in this thread.

Edit2: This may have been PVCs. Low magnesium is one of the causes of PVCs.

[ofonorow]

Thanks Jacquie. It makes more sense to try increasing magnesium (and making sure manganese in all supplements is less then 2 mg daily.) than to reduce vitamin C! Pauling's strong recommendation was not to skip taking vitamin C "even for a single day."

Warfarin is a complicating factor, and vitamin K2 should be taken (which should not affect INR). If you dig deep enough, you'll find that these "rat poison" drugs increase, rather than lower, the possibility of blood clots.

I would try to follow Pauling's basic recommendations, including high vitamin E, but add the magnesium and vitamin K2 and see if the pain is still consistent.

[NiacinVC]

Thanks Jacquie. It makes more sense to try increasing magnesium (and making sure manganese in all supplements is less then 2 mg daily.) than to reduce vitamin C! Pauling's strong recommendation was not to skip taking vitamin C "even for a single day."

Warfarin is a complicating factor, and vitamin K2 should be taken (which should not affect INR). If you dig deep enough, you'll find that these "rat poison" drugs increase, rather than lower, the possibility of blood clots.

I would try to follow Pauling's basic recommendations, including high vitamin E, but add the magnesium and vitamin K2 and see if the pain is still consistent.

Is supplementing magnesium a must while mega dosing vc? I take a prenatal vitamin as is but should I be adding extra magnesium on top of that?

[ofonorow]

Is supplementing magnesium a must while mega dosing vc? I take a prenatal vitamin as is but should I be adding extra magnesium on top of that?

For most Americans, supplementing magnesium is a "must", as is supplementing vitamin C.

Someone can correct with the exact number, but it has been estimated that magnesium is required in something like 300 to 600 known metabolic reactions in the human body. More reactions require mg than any known essential nutrient, with the possible exception of vitamin C.

Magnesium is the 11th most abundant element by mass in the human body; its ions are essential to all living cells, where they play a major role in manipulating important biological polyphosphate compounds like ATP, DNA, and RNA. Hundreds of enzymes thus require magnesium ions to function. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magnesium

[majkinetor]

Very large vitamin C doses (20g++) may also promote very slight Mg deficiency due to higher oxalate forming which bind to Mg preferably and get excreted via urine.

So, yes, Mg is must.