I have a few observations/questions as well-
naturopathman
My main point was in saying that the synergy is what makes things work better. So how can you know better than nature? It is such a complex arrangement of so many different chemicals, some of which we don't even know are there.
I don't think the complex that vitamin C is found in is always in the sam e ratios, but as far as I know certain other substances are always there.
One must realize that it is about the synergy, not the numbers. A much smaller amount of ascorbic acid can be better utilzed when it has its co factors then in a larger form in isolate form.
Where is the evidence of this? In fact, as discussed here, the Eskimos get their needed ascorbate from organs, usually adrenal glands. To my knowledge, the ascorbic acid in adrenal glands and organs contains NO complex.
Here is one study
Vitamin C
35% better absorbed in a natural citrus extract containing bioflavanoids, proteins, and carbohydrates than as synthetic ascorbic acid alone (Vinson JA, Bose P. Comparative bioavailability to humans of ascorbic acid alone or in a citrus extract. Am J Clin Nutr 48:601-04, 1988)
To me that says you can use 35% less of a natural compound to get the same amount of AA as a synthetic isolate. Of course, you are not getting the other natural food chemicals with the isolate that may have other benefits than just absorption.
There are some studies showing increased absorption of AA with citrus extract though even that should raise concern as it is an extract and hence not technically in its so called synergistic natural state. Furthermore, the study used AA and enhanced its absorption with bioflavinod extract-there was never any "natural" vitamin c used. Nevertheless, there are studies in wich AA was as well absorbed alone as with citrus or whole food:
The bioavailability to humans of ascorbic acid from oranges, orange juice and cooked broccoli is similar to that of synthetic ascorbic acid.
Mangels AR, Block G, Frey CM, Patterson BH, Taylor PR, Norkus EP, Levander OA.
Vitamin and Mineral Nutrition Laboratory, Beltsville Human Nutrition Research Center, MD 20705.
The relative bioavailability of ascorbic acid from several sources was compared in 68 male non-smokers. Subjects underwent two 8-wk ascorbic acid depletion-repletion cycles. In repletion, subjects were randomized to receive 108 mg/d ascorbic acid as tablets with or without iron, as orange segments or juice, or as raw or cooked broccoli with a crossover within each major treatment group (e.g., cooked to raw broccoli) for the second repletion. Relative ascorbic acid bioavailability was estimated based on the slope obtained from linear regression of plasma ascorbic acid on time during each repletion. In the first repletion, slopes for all groups were similar except for the group consuming raw broccoli (20% lower response, P < 0.01). Second repletion responses were attenuated, but were similar to the first repletion.
Ascorbic acid ingested as cooked broccoli, orange juice or fruit, or in synthetic form seems to be equally bioavailable. The lower relative bioavailability of ascorbic acid from raw broccoli is unlikely to be of practical importance in mixed diets.
Comparative bioavailability of folate and vitamin C from a synthetic and a natural source.
* Nelson EW,
* Streiff RR,
* Cerda JJ.
Intraluminal perfusion of the human small intestine has not been used extensively to study comparative bioavailability of vitamins. In this study a triple lumen tube with a 30-cm study segment was used to measure absorption of water-soluble vitamins from the human proximal jejunum.
Fifteen normal subjects served as their own controls to quantitate absorption of folic acid and vitamin C from an orange juice solution and from a solution of synthetic vitamins. Despite a predictably greater water absorption from the glucose containing orange juice solution, the absorption of the two water-soluble vitamins did not differ significantly from the two solutions. Natural and synthetic ascorbate and folate were avidly absorbed in the first 30 cm of jejunum and with the exception of synthetic folate correlated positively with water absorption. This method, previously applied to the absorption of sugars, amino acids, and electrolytes, can be reliably applied to the study of comparative bioavailability of nutrients from food sources. The advantages of triple lumen perfusion over previous methods are: 1) it overcomes the necessity for urine collections in metabolic studies, 2) it can be used to study sites and mechanism of absorption, and 3) it is a direct measurement of absorption capacity.
This study showed no increae in absorption with bioflavonoids, though I cant find the abstract.
Johnston CS, Luo B. Comparison of the absorption and excretion of three commercially available sources of vitamin C. J Am Diet Assoc. 1994;94(7):779-781.
And from the study cited above- 35% better absorbed in a natural citrus extract containing bioflavanoids, proteins, and carbohydrates than as synthetic ascorbic acid alone (Vinson JA, Bose P. Comparative bioavailability to humans of ascorbic acid alone or in a citrus extract. Am J Clin Nutr 48:601-04, 1988) we get the following:
"Although
natural and synthetic ascorbic acids are chemically identical, citrus fruits contain bioflavonoids such as naringin and hesperidin as well as carbohydrates and proteins that might affect the bioavailability."
We also know that other substances can increase absorption of AA such as Aloe Vera:
Effect of Aloe vera preparations on the human bioavailability of vitamins C and E.
* Vinson JA,
* Al Kharrat H,
* Andreoli L.
Department of Chemistry, University of Scranton, Scranton, PA, 18510 4626, USA.
vinson@scranton.edu
The results indicate that the Aloes improve the absorption of both vitamins C (as ascorbic acid) and E. The absorption is slower and the vitamins last longer in the plasma with the Aloes. Aloe is the only known supplement to increase the absorption of both of these vitamins and should be considered as a complement to them.
So, in light of these things we learn that we can encrease the absorption of ascorbic acid most likley by consuming it with food that contains a wide variety of nutrients "bioflavonoids. . . as well as carbohydrates and proteins" and if one is taking smaller amounts of AA throughout the day to meet their requierments then this is just not a problem. Also, if natural vitamin c were to have a 35% increased absorption (wich we know now is not what the study showed scince they used AA) then you would only need to consume 6500 mgs a day instead of 10000 if you want to consume close to what the rest of the animal kingdom synthesizes.
On another note, it has yet to be shown that whatever nature created and with whatever its complexes might be that it was meant specificaly for predators to consume. We evolved to garner certain nutrients from food that we discovered would keep us alive or provide energy or heal a sickness, food-as we call it for certainly you cant beleive the antelope or the ant or even a blade of grass has only the objective of making sure they produce a nice juicy and nutritious feast for its enemies- did not evolve solely to exactly meet our needs and in fact has developed mechanisms in wich to ward off predators to protect themselves. And there has to be some limit to the complex, synergistic, whole, stumbling block as even herbalists do not use the whole herb as certain parts are toxic and other parts dont contain any healing value.
