evidence Pauling Therapy works?

[exitium]

sheesh and you accuse me of asking questions within questions!

cmon now! I wasnt really asking any questions

so the amount of VC I need is based on how old I am or how long I've had atrial scurvy?

basically YES! You need to overcome the past shortage and get enough consistantly OVER AND ABOVE your daily needs so that past damage can be repaired.

My pool analogy is just a general analogy to supplementation and nutrition. A pool full of water is optimal but one half full is still a pool but it may not be deep enough to safely dive into.

The pool analogy applies to Vit C, and all nutrients, in the same way as the water contained in the pool.

Your body (the pool) contains water (ie pick any nutrient) and the water in the pool evaporates every day just as your body uses nutrients for various bodily functions. If your pool evaporates faster than you fill it the water level drops.

Applied to an organism, deprive the organism of the level of any given nutrient it needs to meet ALL of its internal functions and what happens? In the case of vit C, when the body does not take in enough vitamin C over the course of the day arterial damage occurs because there is not enough C to fuel the enzymatic process involved in rebuilding collagen. Every day you are lacking additional damage occurs. You cant simply one day take what the body requires for that day and expect any previous damage to be healed. The only way you are going to be able to address that is by giving your body MORE than it needs for day to day operation so there is an excess that can be used for arterial healing.

This is the exact reason most studies done on supplement fail to show any significant benefit. The amount generally used is not enough to overcome past shortage so no tangible benefit is realized. You start looking at lab tests provided by people using larger doses of various supplements and they do create very substantial changes in the body. As you have seen with vit C, there is data out there from individuals who have shown labs and other tests confirm that previously clogged arteries have cleared. This kind of result will not happen at the normally tested doses you see in pubmed articles etc used in various studies.

When I use the term optimal its exactly what I mean. An engine can run with a fouled spark plug but your not going to get optimal power or fuel economy from it. Suboptimal thyroid function for example is where the thyroid is not producing an IDEAL amount of thyroxins for a given individual which leads to symptoms of hyper or hypo thyroidism and Plenty of studies link sex hormone production to thyroid function.

A person eating a clean diet should not have problems losing fat. If your father falls into that category his thyroid function may not be optimal. You already know adipose tissue is directly related to E and if he cant lose fat that makes it even harder to drop E. Improve thyroid function makes fat loss easy and in turn lowers E.

Additionally this abstract helps to support the connection between thyroid function and test levels:

Abstract
Male reproduction is governed by the classical hypothalamo-hypophyseal testicular axis: Hypothalamic gonadotropin releasing hormone (GnRH), pituitary luteinizing hormone (LH) and follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) and the gonadal steroid, principally, testosterone. Thyroid hormones have been shown to exert a modulatory influence on this axis and consequently the sexual and spermatogenic function of man. This review will examine the modulatory influence of thyroid hormones on male reproduction.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24701426

Much like PT does not have significant tests done on the large scale and in the journals, neither has treating thyroid function with iodine and selenium yet just like Owen and tower labs have hundreds of reports from individuals showing success with PT, there are a dozen or so doctors who have shared their experience treating thyroid issues with iodine and selenium.

So while we may not find a study to directly support supplements raising testosterone and lowering E, there is plenty of info available showing thyroid function benefits from iodine and selenium and in turn plenty of pub med articles showing the relationship between thyroid function and sex hormones as well as thyroid function affecting ones ability to lose fat. So, one could very easily draw the conclusion that supplementing to address the thyroid issue will have a direct impact on the rest of the organism........Just like you said above

I need to post one question per post, but the body is interconnected, one part affects other parts

As with vit C, it takes what most would consider large amounts to overcome past damage AND once fixed to remain damage free. The same holds true for iodine(and many nutrients actually). As I previously mentioned the RDI for iodine is some paltry 150mcg yet Dr Brownstien reports that by taking 50mg a day it will take 6-12 month to reach sufficiency. So what happens if you supplement 1.5mg a day? Thats basically what your having your dad do by eating a bunch of shrimp. Thats 10x the recommended amount but if it takes 6-12 months to reach sufficiency at 50mg (>300x whats recommended) whats 300 times 6-12 months? 1800-3600 months! or 150-300 years! Your will NEVER reach sufficiency at a dose of 1.5mg a day. Selenium is cheap and easy, usually 200-400mcg a day is plenty. The most recommended forms of iodine appear to be lugols (a type not a brand) which is a liquid containing iodide and iodine (5% solution is approx 6.25mg per drop). I persoanlly put the drops in a small glass of OJ and slam it, cant really taste it.

The above numbers on iodine sufficiency and what you know and believe about PT are exactly why the science based forums you visit dont looks at supplementation as any good. 99.9% of those people have never used the required amounts, forms or brands to actually achieve the desired effects. Its the same reason many of the medical journals on supplements show no benefit except for those with a severe deficiency. The amount, duration and form are usually inappropriate for the task.

[blade]

basically YES! You need to overcome the past shortage and get enough consistantly OVER AND ABOVE your daily needs so that past damage can be repaired.

My pool analogy is just a general analogy to supplementation and nutrition. A pool full of water is optimal but one half full is still a pool but it may not be deep enough to safely dive into.

The pool analogy applies to Vit C, and all nutrients, in the same way as the water contained in the pool.

Your body (the pool) contains water (ie pick any nutrient) and the water in the pool evaporates every day just as your body uses nutrients for various bodily functions. If your pool evaporates faster than you fill it the water level drops.

Applied to an organism, deprive the organism of the level of any given nutrient it needs to meet ALL of its internal functions and what happens? In the case of vit C, when the body does not take in enough vitamin C over the course of the day arterial damage occurs because there is not enough C to fuel the enzymatic process involved in rebuilding collagen. Every day you are lacking additional damage occurs. You cant simply one day take what the body requires for that day and expect any previous damage to be healed. The only way you are going to be able to address that is by giving your body MORE than it needs for day to day operation so there is an excess that can be used for arterial healing.

this is why I'm usually have vit C in my body every few hours, to fix this deficit.

This is the exact reason most studies done on supplement fail to show any significant benefit. The amount generally used is not enough to overcome past shortage so no tangible benefit is realized. You start looking at lab tests provided by people using larger doses of various supplements and they do create very substantial changes in the body. As you have seen with vit C, there is data out there from individuals who have shown labs and other tests confirm that previously clogged arteries have cleared. This kind of result will not happen at the normally tested doses you see in pubmed articles etc used in various studies.

When I use the term optimal its exactly what I mean. An engine can run with a fouled spark plug but your not going to get optimal power or fuel economy from it. Suboptimal thyroid function for example is where the thyroid is not producing an IDEAL amount of thyroxins for a given individual which leads to symptoms of hyper or hypo thyroidism and Plenty of studies link sex hormone production to thyroid function.

A person eating a clean diet should not have problems losing fat. If your father falls into that category his thyroid function may not be optimal. You already know adipose tissue is directly related to E and if he cant lose fat that makes it even harder to drop E. Improve thyroid function makes fat loss easy and in turn lowers E.

Additionally this abstract helps to support the connection between thyroid function and test levels:

Abstract
Male reproduction is governed by the classical hypothalamo-hypophyseal testicular axis: Hypothalamic gonadotropin releasing hormone (GnRH), pituitary luteinizing hormone (LH) and follicle stimulating hormone (FSH) and the gonadal steroid, principally, testosterone. Thyroid hormones have been shown to exert a modulatory influence on this axis and consequently the sexual and spermatogenic function of man. This review will examine the modulatory influence of thyroid hormones on male reproduction.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/24701426

Much like PT does not have significant tests done on the large scale and in the journals, neither has treating thyroid function with iodine and selenium yet just like Owen and tower labs have hundreds of reports from individuals showing success with PT, there are a dozen or so doctors who have shared their experience treating thyroid issues with iodine and selenium.

So while we may not find a study to directly support supplements raising testosterone and lowering E, there is plenty of info available showing thyroid function benefits from iodine and selenium and in turn plenty of pub med articles showing the relationship between thyroid function and sex hormones as well as thyroid function affecting ones ability to lose fat. So, one could very easily draw the conclusion that supplementing to address the thyroid issue will have a direct impact on the rest of the organism........Just like you said above

I need to post one question per post, but the body is interconnected, one part affects other parts

As with vit C, it takes what most would consider large amounts to overcome past damage AND once fixed to remain damage free. The same holds true for iodine(and many nutrients actually). As I previously mentioned the RDI for iodine is some paltry 150mcg yet Dr Brownstien reports that by taking 50mg a day it will take 6-12 month to reach sufficiency. So what happens if you supplement 1.5mg a day? Thats basically what your having your dad do by eating a bunch of shrimp. Thats 10x the recommended amount but if it takes 6-12 months to reach sufficiency at 50mg (>300x whats recommended) whats 300 times 6-12 months? 1800-3600 months! or 150-300 years! Your will NEVER reach sufficiency at a dose of 1.5mg a day. Selenium is cheap and easy, usually 200-400mcg a day is plenty. The most recommended forms of iodine appear to be lugols (a type not a brand) which is a liquid containing iodide and iodine (5% solution is approx 6.25mg per drop). I persoanlly put the drops in a small glass of OJ and slam it, cant really taste it.

The above numbers on iodine sufficiency and what you know and believe about PT are exactly why the science based forums you visit dont looks at supplementation as any good. 99.9% of those people have never used the required amounts, forms or brands to actually achieve the desired effects. Its the same reason many of the medical journals on supplements show no benefit except for those with a severe deficiency. The amount, duration and form are usually inappropriate for the task.

I understand and agree with what you are saying, but it leaves me with the same problems.
1 I don't see what you are suggesting as a fix to boost my dad's T/lower his E, it sounds like he solution you are saying is give him lots of everything?
which leads me to problem #2,
-Time.

Cranberries/shrimp are good sources of iodine, but my Dad's diet hasn't been devoid of iodine.
So I don't know if it's causing anything negative in his life.
and if it has, then eating the cranberries/shrimp might help, or it might not, leaving him with the same trouble he has now.
lowT/high E

BUT I know HRT will fix that(as I said, HRT Is akin to using a neighbors pool)
plus I dunno if he has any deficit of anything: occam's razor tells me he's just getting old. as he has common symptoms of old age, lowT/high E.

so I see 2 solutions:
1 give him gobs of iodine/everything he might be deficient in
See if that changes anything. Which takes time, and may not he might not effect him at all.(because telling me a man who worksout, eats 3-4lbs of veggies a day, is having lowT because he is missing a nutrients,(when he's almost 67) is a stretch and not the most obvious answer.

2
give him HRT
lower his high E2, then see how that affects his T and see if that needs to be raised
this will by pass any nutritional deficit and give him numbers that will make him feel better, as everyone says who I know who is on HRT.
I see no downside to this because unlike out of shape, guys who don't eat right, workout, monitor their numbers, my Dad does and will.

Am I missing anything?

[exitium]

2
give him HRT
lower his high E2, then see how that affects his T and see if that needs to be raised
this will by pass any nutritional deficit and give him numbers that will make him feel better, as everyone says who I know who is on HRT.
I see no downside to this because unlike out of shape, guys who don't eat right, workout, monitor their numbers, my Dad does and will.

Am I missing anything?

Yes, I feel you are missing the most important aspect which I have covered before.

Low T is just ONE of dozens of bodily systems affected by nutrition. Taking in exo test does bypass anything, the body is still lacking and while it may not be short of testosterone any longer dont think for one minute that other areas of the body arent suffering.

If his low T/high E is more than just getting old then its a symptom and not THE problem. Ignoring the underlying problem and just addressing the symptom of low T is simply a bandaid and more and more symptoms will continue to come to light as the underlying problem (ie nutrient deficiency) continues addressed.

I have talked with dozens of guys in all age groups who where unhappy with the results from TRT, yes it addressed some of their issues to some degree but did not offer the complete reliefe they were hoping it would and thats all (in my opinion) because they have deeper underlying nutritional issues that TRT does not address.

Also, giving your dad TRT WILL raise his E even more unless he is also taking the drugs I previously mentioned to control that.

In short, yes, what I am saying a complete and comprehensive supplement plan is the way to go.

As my explanation above explained what some docs have reported in terms of reaching iodine sufficiency, your not going to accomplish that with food alone. Just like your going going to get 5g of vit C a day from food alone.

Our food sources are poorer in nutrients than they ever have been and carry more toxins. We are also exposed to more toxins than ever before. Both of those add up to increased nutritional demands that I would bet are nearly impossibly to meet with food alone.

Im really just applying to other nutrients what you already believe about vit C, and even if you dont believe me now I think you are on the path that will, in time make you a believer.

[blade]

Yes, I feel you are missing the most important aspect which I have covered before.
wrong, just so wrong

Low T is just ONE of dozens of bodily systems affected by nutrition. Taking in exo test does bypass anything, the body is still lacking and while it may not be short of testosterone any longer dont think for one minute that other areas of the body arent suffering.

If his low T/high E is more than just getting old then its a symptom and not THE problem. Ignoring the underlying problem and just addressing the symptom of low T is simply a bandaid and more and more symptoms will continue to come to light as the underlying problem (ie nutrient deficiency) continues addressed.

I have talked with dozens of guys in all age groups who where unhappy with the results from TRT, yes it addressed some of their issues to some degree but did not offer the complete reliefe they were hoping it would and thats all (in my opinion) because they have deeper underlying nutritional issues that TRT does not address.

Also, giving your dad TRT WILL raise his E even more unless he is also taking the drugs I previously mentioned to control that.

In short, yes, what I am saying a complete and comprehensive supplement plan is the way to go.

As my explanation above explained what some docs have reported in terms of reaching iodine sufficiency, your not going to accomplish that with food alone. Just like your going going to get 5g of vit C a day from food alone.

Our food sources are poorer in nutrients than they ever have been and carry more toxins. We are also exposed to more toxins than ever before. Both of those add up to increased nutritional demands that I would bet are nearly impossibly to meet with food alone.

Im really just applying to other nutrients what you already believe about vit C, and even if you dont believe me now I think you are on the path that will, in time make you a believer.

this why we are having trouble
you don't read what I write,
I said

2
give him HRT
lower his high E2, then see how that affects his T and see if that needs to be raised
this will by pass any nutritional deficit and give him numbers that will make him feel better, as everyone says who I know who is on HRT.
I see no downside to this because unlike out of shape, guys who don't eat right, workout, monitor their numbers, my Dad does and will.

you saw,"HRT", yet I defined what had to be done. FIRST LOWER e2, which is a big issue
You didnt read/understand that?
Apparently not, as you said HRT would raise E...it won't as he isnt on T and if does need T, then you have to balance the E number


I understand everything you are saying, totally get it, but it's all theory...just cause you understand biochemistry doesnt mean you won't get fat by overeating,, I I need something I can do?
You have mentioned a few things I can do, which I've implemented:

-
different foods to get nutrition
idodine/selenium from shrimp/cranberries/spinach

I explained he will not take more pills...
so what do I do?

I listed 2 viable options of what I can do...I explained my thoughts on them
I also explained the time it takes to figure out what's missing, if anything, is a huge con, compared to just using drugs to get his numbers where they need to be
so question to look at it is which way is going to help
is spending 1+ more years maybe finding a nutritional deficit(if any) better than using HRT drugs to lower E, raise T(maybe?)

I also know a bunch of guys on TRT who feel like crap and or die....so what? doesnt mean they are doing it correctly and since MDs have a idea to give Testosterone to older man who have vague symptoms with no blood testing and no E2 control, I don't buy much into the news/commercials about TRT
(recall I said years ago, My dad was given TRT with no blood tests) perfect example of what I mea


this is exactly what Imeant when I said, "it doesnt matter what you understand, it matters what you do."
I understand he MIGHT Be missing some nutrition,I've done what I can to fix that, but you don't bring har color back via nutrition, so he's getting old...and what can I do that he will do?

[exitium]

I said

2
give him HRT
lower his high E2, then see how that affects his T and see if that needs to be raised
this will by pass any nutritional deficit and give him numbers that will make him feel better, as everyone says who I know who is on HRT.
I see no downside to this because unlike out of shape, guys who don't eat right, workout, monitor their numbers, my Dad does and will.

you saw,"HRT", yet I defined what had to be done. FIRST LOWER e2, which is a big issue
You didnt read/understand that?
Apparently not, as you said HRT would raise E...it won't as he isnt on T and if does need T, then you have to balance the E number


I understand everything you are saying, totally get it, but it's all theory...just cause you understand biochemistry doesnt mean you won't get fat by overeating,, I I need something I can do?
You have mentioned a few things I can do, which I've implemented:

-
different foods to get nutrition
idodine/selenium from shrimp/cranberries/spinach

I explained he will not take more pills...
so what do I do?

I listed 2 viable options of what I can do...I explained my thoughts on them
I also explained the time it takes to figure out what's missing, if anything, is a huge con, compared to just using drugs to get his numbers where they need to be
so question to look at it is which way is going to help
is spending 1+ more years maybe finding a nutritional deficit(if any) better than using HRT drugs to lower E, raise T(maybe?)

I also know a bunch of guys on TRT who feel like crap and or die....so what? doesnt mean they are doing it correctly and since MDs have a idea to give Testosterone to older man who have vague symptoms with no blood testing and no E2 control, I don't buy much into the news/commercials about TRT
(recall I said years ago, My dad was given TRT with no blood tests) perfect example of what I mea


this is exactly what Imeant when I said, "it doesnt matter what you understand, it matters what you do."
I understand he MIGHT Be missing some nutrition,I've done what I can to fix that, but you don't bring har color back via nutrition, so he's getting old...and what can I do that he will do?

Dude, get out and do some more research, even if you get dads E under control before TRT, going on TRT to levels over 500 will, for about 90% of the population, REQUIRE estrogen control! Talk to people on real TRT and not the clowns on various forums self medicating and ignoring their E levels.

Your like a broken record claiming I dont read when the reason you say that is clearly because you dont read/understand what I write.

You have been giving the solution that will, if not get your dad at the high end of normal T for his age and lower E, will at least carry with it enormous health benefits. Argue against it, ignore it or call me crazy, I dont really care what you think, or what action you take, its no skin off my back.

Ive said it before and I will say it again, your not here looking for a solution because you already found the solution in your mind and you are looking for others to justify your approach. As you have likely noticed replies to your threads are few and far between and when you do get them you are rude and insulting (like to Johnwen) so I think its safe to say your not going to find the support your looking for here.

I also think this conversation and any others where you try and build support to put your clearly unhealthy father on TRT is played out.

Best of luck to you and your family.

[blade]

Dude, get out and do some more research, even if you get dads E under control before TRT,
.

Dude, srsly, read what I wrote,
HRT step 1 Control E
step 2 look at total t ,see if it needs to be higher
step3 if do TRT, relook at E,
but it's good to see you are finally admiting him having high E is an issue to deal with ASAP, not while "pools" fill, but now, before more damage is done.

why arent you understanding this?
and are constantly rude to me about your lack of understanding? I don't get it

going on TRT to levels over 500 will, for about 90% of the population, needs estrogen control!.

LOL, that sounds scientific! over 500? did you just pull that number outta your hat?
again, I said the FIRST step is controlling his high E level, as I've said every-time regarding HRT with him
do you just not understand?>

Talk to people on real TRT and not the clowns on various forums self medicating and ignoring their E levels.
Your like a broken record claiming I dont read when the reason you say that is clearly because you dont read/understand what I write..

HAHA yes, the proof is above and the last 2 posts, you simply do not read
now you have the audacity to judge people whom you have no idea who they are? but based one one trait, you name call them?
how rude, but that shows the kind of person you are...lashing out as you are backed into a logic corner.

You have been giving the solution that will, if not get your dad at the high end of normal T for his age and lower E, will at least carry with it enormous health benefits. Argue against it, ignore it or call me crazy, I dont really care what you think, or what action you take, its no skin off my back..

another vague answer eh
your "answer"? is to give him everything and he might get better has to many cons.
of course you don't care, that's been seen throughtout my interaction with you. You'll spend 450 words telling me how you started unscientifically taking b12 and use that "method" but don't just read my posts, you scan for words so you can add in your useless stories

Ive said it before and I will say it again, your not here looking for a soluton because you already found the solution in your mind and you are looking for others to justify your approach. .

sorta right,I came here with a solution in mind and looking for alternatives.
To do this,I look at the pros/cons. I listed them in HRT vs your "solution" last post. You won't have a convesation about how HRT might be the answer, you are set on your "TAKE EVERYTHING AND SEE" method,
I"ve even added what I could from that method,. but time is a factor and you are too set in your way to clearly see both sides.
Me being here and using vitamins/food shows I'm very open to something other than drugs, but you have nothing that has more benefits, as I explained

As you have likely noticed replies to your threads are few and far between and when you do get them you are rude and insulting (like to Johnwen) so I think its safe to say your not going to find the support your looking for here..

-wasnt rude. you have been very rude to me
maybe you havent been tell, I'm not use to communicating on forums, I look for logical reasons and weigh pros/cons, yet dealing with someone who is all about "just take everything" and admits what he's done is not scientific and is not repeatable, yet tells me to do the same thing, is laughable.

I also think this conversation and any others where you try and build support to put your clearly unhealthy father on TRT is played out.

Best of luck to you and your family.

since you have no good ideas, a cept TRY EVERYTHING and WAIT AND SEE.. and you cannot explain why my plan of action has faults, other than it relies on medicine and I will stop responding
I hope one day, you find that missing element that may not may not exist and be like my Dad and not have afib.

[jimmylesante]

I'd like to know more about why low Testosterone leads to higher risk of CAD

Perhaps your dad doesn't have enough cholesterol and therefore not enought Test. as cholesterol is needed to produce testosterone.
Perhaps the cholesterol is busy in other parts of the body?
Lp(a) is LDL+protein and a very high risk factor for CVD. Also homocysteine is a high risk factor for CVD and in particular A-fib.
To reduce homocysteine avoid all animal protein and take plenty of B-complex vitamins- with an extra B6.
I see you say your dad is on medications, here's a quick list of medications and some of what they deplete:
Beta Blockers and statin drugs:::Coenzyme Q10
ACE inhibitors:::Zinc
Aspirin:::Vitamin C
Metformin:::Vitamin B12
Digoxin:::Vitamin B1
Blood Thinners:::Vitamin K
Of course magnesium is very important.
I must say i do find your posts very fragmented and struggle to understand what exactly you are after. I get the feeling you are looking for the magic singular problem(as is the error with much scientific endeavour) when in fact it could be a multitude of problems/deficiencies.
Perhaps you could easily outline what you are wanting to know from forum members.

[jimmylesante]

Perhaps this can answer some of your questions
http://a-fib.com/treatments-for-atrial-fibrillation/mineral-deficiencies/

[blade]

I'd like to know more about why low Testosterone leads to higher risk of CAD

Perhaps your dad doesn't have enough cholesterol and therefore not enought Test. as cholesterol is needed to produce testosterone.

I must say i do find your posts very fragmented and struggle to understand what exactly you are after. I get the feeling you are looking for the magic singular problem(as is the error with much scientific endeavour) when in fact it could be a multitude of problems/deficiencies.
Perhaps you could easily outline what you are wanting to know from forum members.

I can look at my own blood tests to answer this and show my lack of understanding with the low cholesterol means low test.
I had a cholesterol of 220+ and a Test of about 350, Fasting blood sugar of 105
I dropped 80lbs or so, got to about 12% bodyfat, my total cholesterol dropped to 152 and my testosterone rose to 630 or so. fasting blood sugar 82
the only thing I changed was how much fat I carry, my diet/exercises stayed mostly the same, relying on efas/ eggwhites/veggies/fruit..basically how my dad does his.
but even with dropping cholestrol to 152, my testosterone rose and I was on a rather low-fat diet to boot

so I wonder about his cholesterol causing low testosterone because he has always had low cholesterol, and he's a big fella, so I doubt he's always had low Testosterone.

Lets say that my dad's low cholesterol is why he has low test....what can be done about that? he isnt on any medications, cept for his afib and diabetes(metoformin, I think,, not insulin)

Perhaps you could easily outline what you are wanting to know from forum members.

yes, here's the background:

My dad has high A1c/high fasting blood sugar(type 2 diabetes) and atrial fibrillation, he is 67.
For the last 12 years or so, he has been on a high vegetable diet/ with fruits and lean meat and/or eggs.
Occasionally have crap food, around holidays etc

May 2014, his blood test showed low Testosterone(293) and high estradiol(42)
giving him a T/e ratio of about 7(30-40)

I've read lots that HRT will drop his a1c (its a 7 currently) and might fix his a-fib.
I posted problem and my solution looking for a solution that has a better cost/benefit than putting him on drugs to lower his estrogen and maybe raise his testosterone,if it doesn't raise by itself, as mine did, because of the lack of estradiol.


I've read about "natural ways" to drop his estrogen, and have done all of them:
-lost bodyfat
He's at BMI 25, which is less than we was last may 2014. (Im going to get his bodyfat tested in about 2 months) he worksout/weights and/or cadio 5-7 days a week

He has routinely eaten 2+lbs of broccoli daily plus other veggies some fruits. I have a hard time getting him to eat more greens/fruits
1-3x week he eats a breakfast of 6 eggs, sometimes sausage/bacon and won't eat any greens...he only eats fruits/things other than broccoli because my mom gets him too.

He's going to get a new blood test soon to look at his lipids and testosterone/estrogen

He's on a bunch of pills for diabetes(Im not sure what), afib,(which he doesnt have anymore on the meds) and for elements like MG/K and takes 3+ grams VS(powder).
My dad has an issue with taking pills....so when Exitium says to take more pills, compliance is a big issue but so is time. he his high a1c/low T, he needs a fix sooner rather than later.
I work to get him to eat more greens, but I'm not sure what, if anything, will overcome the fact he's old and has low Testosterone because he's old.

So HRT, the way I said to do it, seems to be best option.

[jimmylesante]

Well yes HRT would be the quickest way i guess.
Although i understand that natural progesterone cream would reduce the E as would extract from Saw Palmetto.

Clearly your old man has compliance issues And you can't force him to eat what he should be eating or taking pills/powder. So perhaps HRT is the best option.

Ideally he could take just under bowel tolerance Vit C, and plenty of vitamin B3 which regulates cholesterol + B complex to break down all the homocysteine from the animal protein and B12 to make up for the metformin. And his minerals etc.

Perhaps there is an issue with his liver(fatty etc) and the hormones etc are failing to be made here as it is working to hard?
If it were my dad, and he listened to me. I'd get him to fast for 14days, milk thistle tablets, plenty of water and after day 4 start with watered down vegetable juices and after day 7 normal vegetable juice.
Take a week break and fast again if necessary.
There is a free e-book on the net " How and When to Be your Own Doctor" which is very informative about fasting. Sometimes taking less is more and this helps the body get rid of toxins, normally through the secondary channels, i.e skin, lungs etc(which may be why hair goes grey early??) Then the primary toxin cleaners, the liver and kidneys can clear the backlog,regenerate and rest and think about working in a way they should be.

[blade]

Well yes HRT would be the quickest way i guess.
Although i understand that natural progesterone cream would reduce the E as would extract from Saw Palmetto.

Clearly your old man has compliance issues And you can't force him to eat what he should be eating or taking pills/powder. So perhaps HRT is the best option.

Ideally he could take just under bowel tolerance Vit C, and plenty of vitamin B3 which regulates cholesterol + B complex to break down all the homocysteine from the animal protein and B12 to make up for the metformin. And his minerals etc.

Perhaps there is an issue with his liver(fatty etc) and the hormones etc are failing to be made here as it is working to hard?
If it were my dad, and he listened to me. I'd get him to fast for 14days, milk thistle tablets, plenty of water and after day 4 start with watered down vegetable juices and after day 7 normal vegetable juice.
Take a week break and fast again if necessary.
There is a free e-book on the net " How and When to Be your Own Doctor" which is very informative about fasting. Sometimes taking less is more and this helps the body get rid of toxins, normally through the secondary channels, i.e skin, lungs etc(which may be why hair goes grey early??) Then the primary toxin cleaners, the liver and kidneys can clear the backlog,regenerate and rest and think about working in a way they should be.

why is there something wrong with him? why isnt he just getting old and has symptons due to his lowT/high E

why do I think fasting is going to do something for him?(is this the book you mention? http://www.soilandhealth.org/02/0201hyg ... 2moser.PDF

what are vegetable juices? (like how do you make that)

Im very interested in the fasting, as I've read the ebook eat stop eat by brad pilon http://www.eatstopeat.com/
and I've read about the 5/2 diet
http://thefastdiet.co.uk/(2 days a week, low calories, 5 days higher calories, supposed to lower ig-f1, as does not eating so much animal protein)

and I cannot get either of my parents to fast for even 8 hours... heck,it for a while my dad would take his blood sugar in the mornings, he was having varying numbers because he would eat bead(whole wheat bread) and it would spike his blood sugar, so it was sill elevated when he'd get up/test/ because he didnt have enough time without food.(at most 7 hours)
I put a stop to him eating bread.

add in colonics and it's just not gonna happen, wtf? the man eats pounds of broccoli nearly daily(cept when not at home) and he has for over a decade or 2, I talked to my mom about this, and they learned about how great broccoli, was decades ago and thought it was the easiest way to "be healthy"

now, he still eats at night/in bed, but he eats eggwhites/mixed veggies and his sugars are lower..
so yes, I agree about fasting, but he can't even fast 8 hours, much less 14 days

is there evidence in that book that the body actually has "toxins"?
and these toxins are causing him to have low T? or high E?
ok I'll read the book and see what it says about toxins...
I enjoy fasting, I try to have 2 meals a day, like jack lahhanne and it does make me feel good, cause occasionally, I do eat more often, and even if I don't gain weight, I don't feel as good

I do wonder how his blood sugars would be if he fasted for over 8-12 hours

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