Vitamin B5 (Pantothenic Acid) - The Anti-Fat Vitamin?

[tangy]

ofonorow @ Is this the article http://orthomolecular.org/library/jom/1 ... 2-p099.pdf ?

[tangy]

[exitium]

[ofonorow]

ofonorow @ Is this the article http://orthomolecular.org/library/jom/1 ... 2-p099.pdf ?

Yes. This is why I always loved this forum - like a gigantic brain... That is one of the paper's that Dr. Levy sent to me.

The addition of carnitine makes a lot of sense, while Dr. Leung didn't mention "bloating" in the paper - so as far as we know, someone made that up to sell their carnitine product... (How good is that source?)

And yes, 10 to 20 grams of pantenthetic acid (ordinary B5) is required otherwise, but that is the focus on Pantethine. More stable (depending on what source you read) and for the acne application 1-2 grams works in the place of 10 grams of B5. (And we can also find out if taking Coenzyme A supplements is better/worse.. Since NOW foods also offers coenzyme A.)

This was going to be a class research question.. But I'll spill the beans... The fact that humans invariably go into ketosis on a low-carb diet puzzled Dr. Leung. Why, when we face famine, since fat burning is more efficient than carb burning, why should we always go into an energy wasting, emergency fat burning mode we call ketosis? How/why would evolution work that way? Our ancestors faced a lot of famines..

His theory is that the body runs out of coenzyme A. (And that is also why acne forms when the hormones of puberty start to be produced.)

So ketosis can be used to titrate to the correct dosages (let say minimal dosages) of vitamin B5. From our pilot study already, we see that ordinary B5 is doing exactly what Leung reported - at 10 g/day. Little or no hunger or weakness, and slow steady weight loss without ketosis.

A smaller, yet high dose of Pantethine, is accomplishing the same feat. (Currently the people involved are more interested in the weight loss, than titrating to the smallest dose - especially because I am paying for their B5.) But we have the tools to evaluate the optimal dosage, and to determine whether carnitine does help, etc. However, B5 has been around a long time, and is very inexpensive relative to carnitine.

Anyway, titrating to ketosis will be the way to minimize the amount of B5. If you are trying to lose weight, on a low carb diet as you should be to trigger fat (rather than carb burning) and go into ketosis. You are not taking enough vitamin B5.

For those who have read this far, I will briefly introduce our new FOOD product... Internally "Butt Pucks" (since they look like a hockey puck.)

Don't you ever wonder why foods that taste good are always bad for you? We got the idea to put "everything" you need in a good tasting dark chocolate brownie that also contians 2.5 grams of vitamin B5. So 4 brownies (or Butt Pucks) per day provide

10,000 B5 (with some Pantethine if we solve the filler issue)
Days worth of protein (we are using whey powder in the prototypes, but will be using NOW foods free amino acids)
Life Extension Mix powder (complete multi vitamin)

The product is NOT cooked, preserving all nutrition, but it tastes much like a normal brownie.

I have them on my mind because I used them yesterday - and ran out and I miss them! They help with the "chocolate fix" later in the day, and because of the lack of hunger, eating 4 per day - and losing weight at the same time - seems doable.

The idea is that these are a complete food - 250 calories per brownie - no sugars of any kind added.. so 4 equal the 1000 calories in Leung's study.

Mass production will be an issue if they get popular - as 4 "brownies" per day means 120 per month, or about 400 per person for the expected weight loss interval.

The good news is that after the weight is lost, Leung says that only 1 to 2 grams of ordinary B5 is required for ongoing maintenance. Meaning one brownie per day.

And the break through - why I am announcing - is that the latest formula did not spike my blood sugar! (Early formulas did)

[ofonorow]

[confused1]

I don't want to argue, but hunger and tiredness are real physiological events. They are indicators that your body needs food or rest. They can be ignored just like stop signs, but you do so at your own risk.

[eDOC]

Almost all benefits of B5 are through it's regulation of endocrines and thus metabolism etc.

eDOC!!


PS: Owen never took it seriously till he read about Dr. Leung and his work.........

[tangy]

"Butt Pucks" How do you make them sweet without sugar...stevia?

There is a lot of evidence that b5 indeed makes you loose weight just Google the term "b5 weight loss forum" and you will see many people reporting loosing weight apart from getting rid of acne. How it does that, I don't know for sure.

You guys might want to read this too, if you are going to try b5 mega dosing.

I started B5 about 3 months ago and was taking about 20 grams (20,000 mg) daily to clear up my acne. I took this amount for about 3 weeks when I started to notice the shedding. It wasn't massive but enough to concern me. So I stopped the B5. My acne began to return but I maintained it with vitamin A. The hair shedding slowed but did not stop completely. A few weeks later I suffered a huge breakout of acne on my face so I panicked and began taking the B5 again but this time only taking 5 grams per day. Two weeks later my hair began shedding a lot!! I was so depressed. So I began my research into B5 hairloss. Google seemed to have mostly useless information....so I went on to Google Scholar, which has all the studies and medical literature. And I found the answer....

I found this study about mice being treated with Pantothenic Acid (B5) for some sort of nervous system disorder. It is somewhat unclear as to why the mice are being treated, as the full study is not shown unless you pay for the website. But what is clear is that these mice developed alopecia but when Inositol was added, the hair loss stopped. Here is the study. http://www.cabdirect.org/abstracts/1941 ... 189307C294

Source https://www.acne.org/messageboard/topic ... oss-cured/

[eDOC]

BTW, I don't Google, make up or read others work. What I post is based on my clinical experiences and knowledge.

eDOC!!

[eDOC]

BTW, I don't Google, make up or read others work. What I post is based on my clinical experiences and knowledge.

eDOC!!

thanks Edoc, Im still dubious,I was dubios about 10g vit C, but I understood the MOA and I saw changes in people taking lots of grams of VitC


EDOC

you think my dad, who is type 2 diabetic AND has A-fib should take 3+ grams of B5?

zarfaz, 3 grams/day in a divided dose would be enough. Mix it with oral DMSO, (as I replied to your PM.)

The product from the link looks fine, but I haven't tried any Purebulk products. You are very resourceful, educated young man.


eDOC!!

[eDOC]

thanks for the help!!

You're welcome zarfas.

eDOC!!

[ofonorow]

PS: Owen never took it seriously till he read about Dr. Leung and his work.........

True, and I never took DMSO seriously until reading about your cases as spread throughout this forum

A one year study of 100 people WITHOUT side effects is impressive.

As far as the "hair loss" issue that has been reported, we suspect there is some competition with biotin - i.e., when the mega b5 is ingested, the normally very low amount of biotin in the diet/supplements is blocked.. Now the inositol connection is new, thank you forum,

Inositol is a B-vitamin-like nutrient found naturally in whole grains, beans, nuts, and fruits. It is also made by the body and is available as a dietary supplement. There are nine types of inositol occurring in nature. Two forms, myo-inositol and D-chiro-inositol, have specific functions in our cells.

and the problem with anecdotes, is that when this person added Inositol - they may have also added biotin.

[ofonorow]

Butt Pucks" How do you make them sweet without sugar...stevia?

We were prepared to add stevia/xylitol (although there is risk of diarrhea in some people with xylitol) if the taste was obnoxious because of the B5, LEF Mix and protein. We may still have to, but the dark chocolate is pretty overwhelming. We started with the "no bake" brownie recipes you can find on the internet (because we didn't want the heat to deplete the nutrients). Basically a fruit, such as appricots or dates, becomes the "glue" that holds it together. (Trader Joes sells something similar - without the B5/Vitamins and Protein) but they apparently don't have all their products on the web. Otherwise I'd show our current model. (Evolved from a brownie to a circular smaller "puck" because when you are on B5, you are not hungry and an entire brownie was too much.)

As far as a previous comment that it takes days to go into ketosis - only if you are deficient in Conezyme A. With an ample supply of B5, so far, no one has gone into ketosis - exactly as Leung described in 1995. The designer of the Butt Pucks is a "little" overweight herself, is so experienced at dieting that she can tell by the taste in her mouth when she goes into ketosis. She has been on about 7200 pantethine. No ketosis. She is steadily losing weight. She said this is the easiest weight loss program she has ever been on. Her (and my) biggest problems are the new wardrobe that will be required, and how to get from here to there.. (I can buy suspenders). I have already lost 4 inches around my waist.

[RatherBeUnknown]

For me vitamin b5 in dosages at 1g and above can produce serious hyperthermia, low blood sugar symptoms (muscle weakness, etc.) and very rarely an androgenic feeling (vitamin b5 is supposed to upregulate 5alpha reductase or something).

[RatherBeUnknown]

(vitamin b5 is supposed to upregulate 5alpha reductase or something).

so increased hair-loss?

Hair loss from B5 is a side-effect in some but it's most likely caused by a B5-induced biotin deficiency and not hormonal.