strange virus that vitamin C could not beat

[mike.molyneaux]

Here's a case of a strange virus that vitamin C could not beat. My illness started like a case of typical influenza, so I immediately started with 2 grams Calcium Ascorbate in orange juice every 2 hours, increased dose rate until bowel intolerance - loose stool. The illness seemed resistant so after 3 days I consulted my doctor who suspected a viral infection. He prescribed cough mixture and encouraged me to continue vitamin C therapy. After 5 days my fever was peaking at 104 degrees F. Second visit to doctor and same advice. I continued with 2.5 grams Vitamin C every 2 hours. After 6 days my doctor sent me to hospital where tests confirmed a viral infection but still no help from Vitamin C. 7th day my stool was so loose/liquid frequent I had an IV drip installed. To try lessen diarrhea I reduced Vit C to 1 gram every 2 hours. The disease then reached peak severity after 8 days but I discontinued vitamin C because the diarrhea was so bad. Eventually recovered without any further vitamin C. What could have gone wrong?

[pamojja]

Though I don't know why it wouldn't work in your case, but I have some questions.

I wouldn't use calcium ascorbate for titrating to bowel tolerance, the calcium load you get is far too much. Why you didn't use ascorbic acid which appears to be the most effective?

What was your bowel tolerance on different days? - did you keep track of your intake? Have you experimented with bowel tolerance before, or was this your first attempt?

thanks for any answers.

[ofonorow]

started with 2 grams Calcium Ascorbate in orange juice every 2 hours

See: http://www.vitamincfoundation.org/surefire.shtml

We would not have predicted that the dosage you decided to take would have altered the course of a severe flu. Note we would have recommended 8000 mg every 20 minutes for 2 to 3 hours at the earliest signs of the illness.

Also, any form of vitamin C other than ascorbic acid would be predicted to have half the potency of a mineral ascorbate. And as the previous poster noted, titrating with calcium ascorbate is probably unwise. We recommend either ascorbic acid or sodium ascorbate.

Once the infection has taken hold, your only recourse is to follow Dr. Cathcart's instructions, http://www.orthomed.com/titrate.htm and take vitamin C to bowel tolerance, to reduce the symptoms.

[mike.molyneaux]

[ofonorow]

The Levine work has been criticized by Drs. Hickey/Roberts, especially in their book The Ridiculous Dietary Allowance, (http://www.lulu.com/ascorbate) We have covered most of the issues here, but will do so again if necessary. We appreciate Mark Levine's advocacy of vitamin C at the NIH, but Levine has failed to respond properly to the Hickey/Roberts criticism.

The issue with a mineral ascorbate has to do with the so-called "ascorbate effect" which quenches the free radicals spawned by infections. Dr. Cathcart discovered clinically that he was unable to achieve this effect orally with mineral ascorbates, only ascorbic acid, and if stomach distress is an issue, baking soda can be added to turn some of the ascorbic acid into sodium ascorbate.

If you really have such a low tolerance, and many people do, then you might consider a liposomal form, such as livonlabs.com Lypo-C to increase blood serum levels.

[mike.molyneaux]

[Johnwen]

Maybe had something to do with this. Article written by a very knowledgable person!!!

Professor Ely told this author that he had advised Linus Pauling of the GAA theory and its prediction that Vitamin C would be less effective fighting colds in those who did not restrict their sugar intake. Recently, Ely and associates conducted a study on the common cold to test the GAA theory. Sugar and refined carbohydrates were restricted in the subjects. According to Dr. Ely, the remarkable (soon to be published) results showed an overwhelming preventive and curative property of vitamin C against the common cold in subjects with reduced sugar intake. (Presumably these subjects did not suffer the cellular membrane malfunction commonly diagnosed as Diabetes Type II).

[ofonorow]

Hmmm? I don't see the connections between the last 2 posts??

But as far as the "propaganda" behind Ester-C, I do believe the evidence shows that most of what they say is true - Ester-C does enter cells faster, and less of it has been shown to prevent/cure scurvy in guinea pigs. However, it is not a natural form of vitamin C. It may be "trapped" in cells longer, etc. Also, it contains "metabolites" that would normally be considered impurities. (Clever marketing). We wrote the following critique of Ester-C: http://vitamincfoundation.org/esterc.htm and we generally do not recommend it. (However, there is evidence that it can increase the effectiveness of vitamin C against cancer, at least in the test tube, and except for the fact that we would not recommend calcium to cancer patients, as calcium increases embryonic cells (e.g. cancer's) ability to divide, cancer may be the one case we would recommend Ester-C. Wish there was more science to go on.)

[mike.molyneaux]

I've known about the adverse effects of sugar for a few years and I look foreward to reading Prof Ely's new study.

[cynthia386]

My sister thought that vitamin c had zapped her urinary infection, and it promptly came back when she stopped taking it. Cathcart had a term for this state where you still have the virus but your symptoms are gone, he called it being "unsick."

You're body needs time to fight off the virus. The vitamin c mostly makes you feel better and reduces your chance of dying, by flushing out the toxins that the virus produces. It also has a couple of other benefits, but it does not zap the virus.

Cathcart used vitamin c with antibiotics in cases of bacterial infections. It was the antibiotics that were relied on to kill the bacteria. The vitamin c helped the patent feel better and insured that the patient would not die because he had the wrong antibiotic.

[godsilove]

The vitamin c mostly makes you feel better and reduces your chance of dying, by flushing out the toxins that the virus produces

What toxins does a virus produce?

[Ralph Lotz]

Ester-C is a form of calcium ascorbate. Each tablet provides 1,000 mg of vitamin C and 110 mg of calcium. Using the high doses mentioned by Owen would rack up a load of too much calcium.

[mike.molyneaux]

Quite right about overloading the body with calcium, or any mineral counterpart of ascorbate, causing liver and/or kidney problems. Intravenous administration is very tricky for that reason. Prescrbing dose levels should be a matter of careful research.

[Ralph Lotz]

Intravenous administration is very tricky for that reason

Intravenous administration is not tricky at all, just use sodium ascorbate. The tricky part is finding a practitioner that knows what he/she is doing.