Bioavailability of Vitamin C

[Johnwen]

This is the one you just did with 5 Gram Gulp.




This is 5 and 10 Gram Comparison.
The 10 Gram was 7/18/15? Correct??
I reduced the 10 G to the same time's as the 5 G to simplify.
NOTE the times on the bottom their doubled. This is because you can't have two figures in the same column So the numbers are First 5G Second is the 10 gram time.
I could have photoshopped them in but it would have been very clustered because some are pretty close numbers.

[Johnwen]

I believe the following explains why your seeing such differences!
An answers 1 and 2 of your questions.
How about this Horse and cow, Cat and dog their all animals Right?
However they are different! The same as the different type of test strips these meter's use.

True Result!
Enzyme used for glucose testing is glucose dehydrogenase-PQQ!

Read these!

http://www.fda.gov/Safety/MedWatch/Safe ... 177295.htm

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2845013/

NOW!
The new FreeStyle Lite test strips do not use the GDH-PQQ enzyme, which can be affected by common non-glucose sugars
The FreeStyle Lite test strips use a GDH-FAD enzyme which is unaffected by common non-glucose sugars, such as maltose or galactose, and minimizes the potential for other interference.

http://www.hmdbio.com/index.php?option= ... &Itemid=61


http://www.bbisolutions.com/news/2013/0 ... nsitivity/

Other sources of error are taking the vitamin C by mouth, and then using your tongue to clean the blood on the finger. Should just use a cotton ball to clean the blood.

Like your parents use to say 'OWEN!!! Keep your fingers out of your Mouth!!'

Take a saucer and put a tiny bit of rubbing alcohol in the bottom and place a 2x2 gause in it and add to saturate it and a small bit extra. Then use this to wipe your finger on and prepare the other one for poking! NOTE: Keep flames and heated objects away from this, rubbing alcohol is Flammable!

[ofonorow]

Wow, thanks for the help johnwen - and for helping us become an expert on the test strips... I am totally confused, especially after today's run which was a gulp of 15,000 mg of ultrafine ascorbic acid powder.

Also a dud?

After the run I looked at the expiration and today's test strips were old. Lot 1473927, Expire Feb 2016. In the past, the test strips had at least 2 years, for example, the last run (5 gram gulp) the expiration was May 2017 (lot 1511213). If the strips are changing drastically, that potentially puts Kabash on this. I wish I had recorded all the lot numbers from the previous runs.

And the UltraOne Touch meter is, well horrible. It was mentioned in the other paper as being reactive to C in the blood, so I bought it.
It is very hard to use. There is no audible signal. All other meters beep at the appropriate time. And the channel for the blood on the test strip is so narrow, that a lot of blood is required for "capillary action". I have only gotten about 50% to work properly.

And after today's results, I was reminded of Hugh Riordan. As a medical student he was giving himself small IV/C and measuring his blood as part of some study. Then he was bitten by a spider, gave himself an IV/C, but no vitamin C was then measured in his blood. It took 3 or 4 days of the IV before he started measuring any vitamin C in his blood. The point is that if a person is fighting something, or under stress, we know that the tissues can almost immediately absorb large amounts of ascorbate administered IV.

One of the reasons for doing today's run so close to the last run was to minimize differences in my stress levels. I feel fine, but while the blood measurement did rise from 117 to a high of 172 (+55 points), the experiment did not record anywhere near the early high spikes of the earlier 10,000 mg measurements. We'd need to see the 5, 10 and 15 grams gulp graphs, side by side. Not what I expected at all..

Test strips?
My insulin levels?
My stress levels?

Nov 17 - 15,000 mg gulp of ultrafine DSM ascorbic acid.

Baseline TrueResult 112 Meter A 117, (Water) Meter B 120, Meter C 126 UltraOneTouch 2 141

Code: Select all

Time 0 - Gulp half glass of water with 15,000 mg AA

Meter             Time                 Reading
A                    1                      124
   B                 2                           125
     C               3                                120
A                    4                      125
   B                 5                           120
      C              6                                 131
A                    7                      122
   B                 8                           117
      C              9                                 162
A                   10                     128                       (One Touch ultra2 - 137)
   B                11                           124
       C            12                                131
A                   13                     122
   B                14                           127
       C            15                                136
A                   16                      130
   B                 17                          129
       C             18                                132
A                    19                      128
    B                20                            126
       C             21                                 138
A                    22                       133
    B                23                            129
       C             24                                  151
A                    25                        135
    B                26                             134
        C            27                                   144
A                    28                        146
    B                29                              141
         C           30                                    135
A                    31                        135
    B                32                              172
         C           33                                     142
A                    34                        136
     B               35                               142
         C           36                                     134
A                    37                         142
    B                38                                 147
         C           39                                      131
A                    40                          146

Notes. Did not see the early "3 minute" spike that we had measured previously? And the curve is probably more like the 5 g than what I would have expected for 15 grams. But the numbers are rising...

Intuition or experience tells me that these old test strips have lost something.

Ideally, we would calibrate the strips with the simulated blood solution prior to a run with a particular batch.

Question, it will probably be easier to see with a graph, and we know there is considerable error, but why would blood levels go up, but then back down right away? When you reach a certain concentration of AA in the blood, why wouldn't that stay constant, i.e., when more AA enters the blood stream, shouldn't the concentration keep rising?

The answer seems to be that something is drawing the ascorbate out of the blood.

We know Hickey/Roberts have calculated a 30 minute half-life, meaning that in 30 minutes, the kidneys should be able to reduce a high concntration by 50%. But the shorter fluctuations may be a clue that tissues, rather than the kidney, are taking in the vitamin?

Maybe the morning isn't the best time, since cells deprived of vitamin C all night long, especially as winter approaches, may have a larger appetite for vitamin C in the blood.

The problem with any other time of day is that the stomach may not be empty and the acidity, etc. may vary.

Maybe the way to do this properly is to take a good time release vitamin C before bed. Keep the tissues well fed with vitamin C and happy?

Anybody have any thoughts on what happened today, I am "all ears."

[Johnwen]

Owen Owen!!

First you wrote this;

And after today's results, I was reminded of Hugh Riordan. As a medical student he was giving himself small IV/C and measuring his blood as part of some study. Then he was bitten by a spider, gave himself an IV/C, but no vitamin C was then measured in his blood. It took 3 or 4 days of the IV before he started measuring any vitamin C in his blood. The point is that if a person is fighting something, or under stress, we know that the tissues can almost immediately absorb large amounts of ascorbate administered IV.

Then you wrote this;

When you reach a certain concentration of AA in the blood, why wouldn't that stay constant, i.e., when more AA enters the blood stream, shouldn't the concentration keep rising?
The answer seems to be that something is drawing the ascorbate out of the blood.

Let me start with a question and an answer!
(Q) In a simple term, What is the purpose of Blood?

(A) It is a Vehicle! Which means it is a transport means to get something from point A to point B.

Like looking at a busy highway you see all kinds vehicles passing by each carrying a cargo be it people or goods of some sort. All going from point A to point B.
For understanding purposes I'll use this following simple examples!

We have thousand people waiting for a ride and 10 red 5 passenger cars whose job it is to pick up these people and take them to various points.
A little simple math will tell you some of those people aren't going to get were they need to go. However the 10 cars will be full each time they make a round and we can count them as they go by our point. However as we know some people will not stay around for that to happen. They'll just consider it a wasted effort and waste away!
So the powers to be see what is going on and set up a gating mechanism to allow only those that are able to get a ride thru. The others will be turned away and just leave rather then stand around and wait.

Although the process the body uses to pass nutrients is a little more complex then this, it works the same way. When you reach what the body considers it's limits it stops allowing these nutrients to pass and they go to waste. Like our example when there is a problem the body will send more cars to the pickup point and carry more cargo out to where it needs to go.

Like with V-C when your well, your BT will be lower (fewer cars more waste) However when your ill your BT will be high. (more cars less waste) which says your body is using the V-C and needs the extra.

So to summarize blood is a vehicle which carries nutrients (V-C=passengers ) out to where their needed. If the using faction is in demand for the cargo there will be a rise in the amount being transported then a drop as they are being used or taken in. As the supply dwindles there will be a steady level trending toward the downward amount available.
So to just look at the blood levels available is only going to show what's being taken into the body and can give us an idea if we are in need or not but there are limits to the amounts that are going to be there. If a person takes in large amounts of V-C and don't reach BT and has low blood levels it would mean the body is transporting and using what is being brought in.
If the above example result in blood levels that are elevated and stay at those levels for quite a well it means they have reached their use limit and building stores.
Once the levels of this holding period of time, things will start to degrade at this point the kidney's come into play by either regeneration, storage or disposal all this is done to maintain levels.
If they hit BT during the consumption phase they have exceeded what the body can take in and use and are sending the excess to waste.

So to say that your going to see sustained higher blood levels is just not going to happen because the body has and uses many ways to maintain what it needs and uses and to try and bypass these natural levels just isn't going to happen!

Think of a person who get's a 25Gram V-C IV will have high blood levels for awhile but what is their blood levels at 4 hours after????

Hope this helps you understand this better.

[Johnwen]

This is the photo shop of the comparison from above without the double numbers.





This is your 15 gram chart from 11-17-15.

[OxC]

Some data from Owen's experiments suggested to me that the meter might be responding to DHAA. For that reason, I purchased an Abbott Freestyle Lite meter which included in the box a vial containing 10 test strips, a vial containing a 'Control Solution/NORMAL,' and a spring-loaded finger-puncture device with a small bag of sterile lancets. I also purchased 100 test strips that were a different lot number.

In all of the experiments described here where I drank solutions, I drank two large glassfuls of water upon waking and waited 30 to 60 minutes before taking a fasting blood glucose measurement (Time 0) and beginning the test. In some cases I took duplicate measurements; these are displayed in the data as '1st/2nd'. '--' indicates no measurement was made at that time interval.

Expt1: Oct. 4, 2015. I used the 10 test strips as follows: I tested the Control Solution, a solution of DHAA in water containing 100 mg/dL, my blood level fasting (Time 0), then I drank a solution of DHAA which contained 1 gram DHAA in 200 mL of water and tested my blood at the times indicated. The Control Solution gave a value of 99 mg/dL; the acceptable range for that lot of strips was 83 ' 125 mg/dL. The value when 100 mg/dL DHAA solution was applied directly to a test strip was 'LO.'

Expt 2: Oct. 17, 2015. I tested the Control Solution with the new lot of test strips; the value was 97 with an acceptable range for that lot of 76-114. I drank a solution containing 2 grams DHAA in 200 mL water.

Expt 3: Oct. 20, 2015. I drank a solution containing 10 grams AA (ascorbic acid) in 200 mL water. Note: 16 minutes after swallowing the AA solution, I felt mild cramping in my lower abdomen, and at 32 minutes I had to rush to the toilet with extremely watery diarrhea. At 150 minutes, I had to rush to the toilet with a second bout of diarrhea. I make note of this because there has been discussion in this topic of the 'impossibility' of vitamin C solution passing from the stomach into the small intestine in a very short time. To the contrary, I believe the location of the cramping I felt indicates that a portion of the AA had passed not just into, but completely through my small intestine within 16 minutes, and diarrhea at 32 minutes indicates that some of the AA solution had passed all the way from my mouth to my other end in that amount of time. I believe that some of the AA solution almost certainly passed from my stomach into my small intestine immediately. Review of some literature suggests that this is not at all unlikely (for example, this study notes that in 17 of 315 normal persons who drank barium solutions during radiographic studies, barium had reached the cecum (had passed completely through the small intestine) within 15 minutes of swallowing it.)

Also, I made a point to test my blood sugar at 2 hours after drinking the AA, since this is about the time that maximum blood levels of ascorbate would be expected to occur.

Expt 4: Oct. 21, 2015. I drank 10 grams of glucose in 200 mL of water.

Expt 5: Oct. 28, 2015. I drank 5 grams of citric acid in 200 mL of water.

It appears that the meter doesn't respond to DHAA, which is unfortunate (for me) because I had hoped that this might be a way to answer the question as whether any orally taken DHAA actually enters the bloodstream as such, or if it is all reduced before entering the bloodstream. Oh well, thought I might as well contribute the results. I'm not going to attempt to interpret the physiological meaning of these data for anyone; you can draw your own conclusions. I'll just point out two things that I think are important:

• I am not diabetic.
• Per the manufacturer's stated expected error range for this meter, only one data point in Expts 1, 2, 3, or 5 can be considered statistically significant as compared to its respective fasting value. That data point is the 120 minute value in Expt3.

Code: Select all

Time Expt1 Expt2 Expt3 Expt4 Expt5 (Min.) (DHAA 1g) (DHAA 2g) (AA 10g) (Glucose) (Citric Acid) 0 90 88/92 83/85 97/100 92 3 97 88 89 95 93 6 95 88 85 104 92 10 95 91 90 108 92 15 98 92 87 113 -- 20 96 92 85 117 87 30 98 93 87 127 -- 40 97 96/94 91 111 -- 60 -- -- -- 98 -- 120 -- -- 96/98 -- --

[Johnwen]

Good job Oxc
One of these days I'll find time to try this on my Reli on
Meter.

[ofonorow]

Wonderful OxC, thank you! It is apparently too bad about the DHAA.

The two most interesting points are the curves and your cramping.

Your cramping account reminded me that yesterday, I had no tolerance issues what-so-ever taking 15,000 mg gulp of ascorbic acid It was as if I had drunk a glass of water.

Your time table seems reasonable, that within 32 minutes some of the vitamin C you consumed had reached the rectum causing the diarrhea. (And the other reaction at 150 minutes is very close to the Jaffe Calibration duration.) Your reaction implies that unlike me, most of the AA taken by mouth does not reach your blood stream, rather, more like my father and brother, that much vitamin C comes out your rear end. Sorry about that. We are all different!

Out of curiosity, what was the brand of AA that you consumed? (I have been consuming the ultafine grade of DSM Quali-C, which doctors had brought to our attention. Our ordinary C powder is the "fine" grade. They told us the ultrafine is better absorbed than either the universal (coarse) or fine grade quali-C. If you are up to it, and assuming you did not already take the ultrafine grade, I am willing to send you a jar, perhaps to retest starting at a lower dosage. It would be interesting to know if people in your situation (low bowel tolerance) can absorb the ultrafine grade of ascorbic acid, when they cannot well absorb coarser grades.

Another question (although I can guess the answer) is how much vitamin C you take daily on a regular basis. One of the factors, in addition to low stomach and intestinal absorption, affecting the curves, would be how "hungry" your tissues are for vitamin C. (The Riordan effect). In my case, taking around 20,000 mg of vitamin C daily since 1986, it is a safe bet that my tissues are saturated, leading to the higher blood levels (until the kidneys kick in.)

Let me know your interest in repeating with lets say 1000, then 2000, 5000 and perhaps 10,000 of ultrafine DSM quali-C.

And before we give up on DHAA - I didn't read that you tried to test DHAA in a simulated blood solution to see how sensitive the FreeStyle Lite meter is to DHAA.

Great job!

[OxC]

Out of curiosity, what was the brand of AA that you consumed? (I have been consuming the ultafine grade of DSM Quali-C, which doctors had brought to our attention. Our ordinary C powder is the "fine" grade. They told us the ultrafine is better absorbed than either the universal (coarse) or fine grade quali-C. If you are up to it, and assuming you did not already take the ultrafine grade, I am willing to send you a jar, perhaps to retest starting at a lower dosage. It would be interesting to know if people in your situation (low bowel tolerance) can absorb the ultrafine grade of ascorbic acid, when they cannot well absorb coarser grades.

Another question (although I can guess the answer) is how much vitamin C you take daily on a regular basis. One of the factors, in addition to low stomach and intestinal absorption, affecting the curves, would be how "hungry" your tissues are for vitamin C. (The Riordan effect). In my case, taking around 20,000 mg of vitamin C daily since 1986, it is a safe bet that my tissues are saturated, leading to the higher blood levels (until the kidneys kick in.)

Let me know your interest in repeating with lets say 1000, then 2000, 5000 and perhaps 10,000 of ultrafine DSM quali-C.

Ultrafine refers only to the size of the particles. Ultrafine dissolves easily because of the small particles. Ultrafine powder, un-dissolved, just plain old dry powder in a jar, gets a yellow coating more easily because of the small particles. In the end, however, no matter what size the particles are, if it is going to be absorbed by your body, it must first be dissolved. Whether I put 10 grams of small particles, or 10 grams of big particles, into solution, the concentration of ascorbate ion will be the same. It isn't very reasonable to think that size of the particles has anything to do with bioavailability.

However, I would never pass up the opportunity to try, for free including shipping, a competing product. I will gladly test my blood with 20 test strips in exchange for the free bottle of ultrafine. You tell me the experiment. I'm not interested in doing 5 different experiments on 5 different days, however. I like my morning coffee just as much as you do.

Do you really consider 10 grams pure ascorbic acid, in one dose dissolved in less than 1/4 cup water, and swallowed in less than 30 seconds, on a fasting stomach first thing in the morning to be "low bowel tolerance?" Really?

[ofonorow]

Ultrafine refers only to the size of the particles. Ultrafine dissolves easily because of the small particles. Ultrafine powder, un-dissolved, just plain old dry powder in a jar, gets a yellow coating more easily because of the small particles. In the end, however, no matter what size the particles are, if it is going to be absorbed by your body, it must first be dissolved. Whether I put 10 grams of small particles, or 10 grams of big particles, into solution, the concentration of ascorbate ion will be the same. It isn't very reasonable to think that size of the particles has anything to do with bioavailability.

In theory, your logic is impeccable.

We are going by the clinical experience of medical doctors who have noticed more ultrafine can be taken before causing bowel tolerance issues. The assumption thus has been more is absorbed. Maybe there is another explanation?

A question is whether vitamin C apparently dissolving in solution means that the solution only contains individual ions? Could there be "clumps" that are not visible to the human eye? I think I would agree that given time, leaving the vitamin C in the water, the concentration between "fine" and "ultrafine" are likely to be identical.

Controlled experiments would help settle this. However, as we notice from your report, we are all different in our ability to absorb vitamin C, and that capability may vary from day to day, even hour to hour. And running these experiments is costly in terms of test strips and delay of morning coffee. ( I wish there was a way to run an ultrafine mid day, wait 2 hours, and run a fine powder, and not create an apples and oranges situation. I may try it and see what happens.)

However, I would never pass up the opportunity to try, for free including shipping, a competing product. I will gladly test my blood with 20 test strips in exchange for the free bottle of ultrafine. You tell me the experiment. I'm not interested in doing 5 different experiments on 5 different days, however. I like my morning coffee just as much as you do.

The idea is to determine whether your blood levels become higher after oral intake of ultrafine. (If you only do it once, then i would ask for 10 grams.) The ramping up was to help determine your bowel tolerance (unless you already know it?) to avoid the toilet. If you want to limit to 20 measurements - then please, every 2 minutes (40 minutes).

Do you really consider 10 grams pure ascorbic acid, in one dose dissolved in less than 1/4 cup water, and swallowed in less than 30 seconds, on a fasting stomach first thing in the morning to be "low bowel tolerance?" Really?

Most people would probably have a similar reaction to yours. Cathcart's paper reports a range from 4 grams to 12 grams daily (in up to 4 divided dosages) as normal. This implies that almost everyone can tolerate 1 gram dosage, and some people can tolerate 3-4 grams at one time.

In my case, I just tolerated 15 grams without any reaction what-so-ever, and my normal dosage per serving is around 9 to 10 grams. So I would call my bowel tolerance "high."

My father could only tolerate 200 mg (0.2 g) of vitamin C by mouth. I would call his bowel tolerance "low".

I think it was your first reaction in 32 minutes which made me assume that your tolerance is on the low side. Confirmation seems to be in the blood readings, which are low either because you are unable to absorb the vitamin C, or because any C absorbed is immediately absorbed into your tissues.

So what is your bowel tolerance? Do you know the largest dose of vitamin C as ascorbic acid you can take without diarrhea? (The second question is how many of these dosages can you consume daily without a reaction.)

[OxC]

Confirmation seems to be in the blood readings, which are low either because you are unable to absorb the vitamin C, or because any C absorbed is immediately absorbed into your tissues.

Ugh. Don't you think it's about time you started to consider more rational explanations? Such as the possibilities:

• That the folks at Abbott Laboratories (who have been manufacturing clinical diagnostic reagents and equipment for something like 75 years now) might actually know how to properly assess the impact of interfering substances on their tests.
• That it might actually be true that ascorbate, at levels achievable by oral administration, does not significantly affect the glucose readings of the Freestyle Lite meter, as Abbott has determined (and my results confirm).
• That the wildly fluctuating blood glucose values you have recorded in some tests, which are neither reproducible nor consistent with known ascorbate absorption patterns, are not measurements of plasma ascorbate, but are blood sugar measurements, and the fluctuations are most probably related to the fact that you are diabetic and conducting these tests in the absence of sufficient insulin.

[ofonorow]

Occam's razor. Your report indicates that no matter what the current ability of a Free Style Lite to measure vitamin C, you as an individual did not absorb much AA given the 32 minute and 2.5 hour tolerance issues.

We do have the report of another individual back in 2012 during his IV. The recorded levels were very high during the IV, so there was at least one other person was able to measure ascorbate using the Abbott meter. Given that, even if the meter no longer is sensitive, we have data when it was sensitive and should not ignore it.

I don't suppose you would be willing to try the IV/C?

For me, this experiment of 250 mg every minute, when compared to the IV/C, is the most compelling.



I would like to know if the test strips (or newer meters) are the problem. I am also now having trouble reproducing the results with the 5 g and 15 g experiments. (I may try to contact Abbott Labs, and suggest they come out with a vitamin C meter)

Also, we have this paper http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/23885992 on the value of Finger Stick Glucose Measurements, to mesaure ascorbate, so the effect is known in other meters. However, I purchased one of the meters - One Touch Ultra - and it is a dud, and doesn't even seem accurate for glucose, is hard to use, the test strips are expensive, etc.

I may try the other meter. I just ordered a Rouch Accu-check. sigh

[OxC]

you as an individual did not absorb much AA given the 32 minute and 2.5 hour tolerance issues.

I'm not sure if you actually read the the study I posted regarding the transit time in the small intestine, but

"Table I and Figure I show analyses of the transit times of 315 normal small bowel studies. The transit time ranged from 15 minutes to 5 hours. It was 2 hours or less in 83 per cent of the cases. Only 3 cases had a transit time of over 4 hours. The mean transit time was 84 minutes."

It would appear that having a dose of AA in my small intestine from 32 minutes to 2.5 hours is quite normal, so I expect that I absorbed a normal amount in my experiment.

[ofonorow]

OxC, no one is saying that everyone's ability to absorb vitamin C is the same. It looks like some people (e.g. me) quickly absorb, and others (you) require more normal measurements later during the digestive process. We didn't see any results during your short test period. I will take a look at that study, but we are seeing some extraordinary blood levels very early. And we are doing this with a low-cost meter.

To me it is interesting that your levels did not elevate and you had symptoms that indicate at least some of the 10 g did not make it into your blood stream. It could be a confirmation that bowel tolerance is, as Cathcart speculated, related to absorption from the GI Tract into the blood. You haven't discussed publicly your own bowel tolerance numbers, but if they are low, then you might be a candidate for the highly absorbed liposomal vitamin C.

And you seemed to still have a question about the meters ability to read ascorbate. (Which prompted a letter to Abbott Laboratories, that I now regret.) The IV and Oral graph, side-by-side, at the same rate is convincing, albeit in a person with very high bowel tolerance (now, quick absorption?)

I regret contacting Abbott because their FreeStyle Lite meter/ test strips are probably fine. I now have an answer to why I was able to chug 15,000 mg at one time without any bowel issue. (And no apparent spike in my last two experiments. The Riordan effect?)

Yesterday I developed a full blown head cold, symptoms of lock jaw, massive congestion with a minor sore throat, head ache and intermittent coughing to relieve the congestion. Apparently I was carrying the pathogen, controlling it without symptoms. (Not sure if this is viral or bacterial. This is my theory and I'm sticking to it.) So when I am over this, I will retest the 5 and 15 grams of AA.

I am not using cold medications, and when it began, the night before last - clear runny drip - I started the protocol I am now on. Mouthful of our liposomal and a tablespoon of ultrafine. I was able to control symptoms that way, but last night I started to get the clear runny drip about every 2 hours, so I have been getting up every 2 hours. Finally had a little bowel issue last night!

Pertinent to this topic, I have switched my own blood glucose meter to the TrueResult (I would mix up meters and these experiments threw my endrocin for a loop. They always download my meter/number.) My fasting numbers have been good, less than 120 waking and lately less than 100 mg/dl. This morning, under my protocol, even the TrueResult reported 196 mg/dl! (Probably is glucose as cortisol is a natural response to stress)

How do this happen, you may ask, to Mr. Vitamin C? Well Mr. Vitamin C replies on Vitamin D. I started a new UV/B reptile lamp in late Aug or early Sep. Just like every other year. And a few days ago that lamp died. It wouldn't illuminate. Stupidly, I had a very old lamp in my study, started using it. And I was feeling invincible. I haven't been sick like this for probably 2 years - maybe 3 when over a Thanksgiving I was evaluating our new liposomal. But I didn't want this - and besides the bad lamp, this thing developed during the night. I was lazy.

The silver lining is that from the teleomere research, telomeres cannot lengthen without cell division, and the Life Length test measures immune cell's telomeres in the blood. There is some long-term immune cell turnover, but perhaps now, with my immune system in full gear, future telomere tests will have a better chance to measure whether our liposomal cycolastragenol is working (increasing my dosage!) The most positive results so far is from the youngest woman in the study with short telomeres, who is sick a lot.

[Johnwen]

MY BET!!! Viral!!!
You didnt get any chicken salad from Costco did you?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Human_res ... tial_virus

http://www.cdc.gov/surveillance/nrevss/rsv/region.html

Click on Midwest on the right box and see the trend is going UP!

BTW:
What did Abbott say about their meter reading V-C???
You didn't give their position on this???