Looking for advice to reduce heart meds

[pigeonguy]

Temp stayed in range today so although I didn't go to work I did go to rehab. Was on stepper and worked up a good sweat for 30 minutes although they were easy on me because of the virus over the weekend. The additional 3 pounds lost was proof enough for them.

Anyway, my BP recovery was the best it's ever been. Went down to 106/68 right after workout. When I got home HR went down to 80s/hi 70s and that usually doesn't happen until 2 hours after the workout.

Wonder if it was all the extra C I was taking over the last 3 days?

[pigeonguy]

Had labs done before I went to Wisconsin last week.

I "chickened out" again and started Zocor two weeks before the lab and then quit the day labs were taken again. I wanted to see what the 40 mg Zocor would do.

Last labs were:
Total Cholesterol - 158
HDL - 34 probably from beta blocker
LDL - 115
Triglyceride - 75
AST and ALT in lower end of range
Homocysteine - 13.1
CRP - 8.5
Lp(a) - 475 nmol/L they want <75

New labs were:
Total Cholesterol - 160
HDL - 36 probably from beta blocker
LDL - 105
Triglyceride - 113
AST and ALT in lower end of range
Homocysteine - 13.5
CRP - 3.4
Lp(a) - 527 nmol/L they want <75

As can be seen above some where better and some worse.

The witch doctor wants to see me and I'm sure he wants to increase the zocor or switch me to Vytorin. Don't plan on taking it though. I'll nod my head like a good little mushroom.

The Lp(a) (increased from 475 to 527) really bothers me. I'm going to crank the C up to BT and boost the L-Lysine also. I do have Ascorbine -9 coming the next autoship this month so I will be taking 2 jars of HT and 1 of Ascorbine-9 plus 2G chewables spread out through out rest of day to get to BT (21G).

CRP went down nicely so the C must be helping there.

Homocysteine is still off the charts. I stopped taking Folbic as the NattoFlow has the B complex in it but maybe not enough. I started taking the Nattokinase for a blood clot in my right wrist that wouldn't go away and it is recommended by Laux and a couple other WD's. It has decreased in size but still hasn't gone away. The cardiolgist said it would ever go completely away as it is just fibrin left there. He doesn't believe proteolytic enzymes can dissolve the fibrin.

He did recommend Niaspan or something like that with tapering the dose up over 6 months because of gout. Doesn't normally bother me but when I tried the 1000mg of Inositol Hexanicotinate that WD recommended gout showed up. So stopped the Niacin.

The other thing that bothers me is the low HDL. Hopefully, stopping the Zocor will help but the beta blocker is probably lowering that also. HR is down to low 60s and in AM goes to 51. WD has me on 50mg Metoprolol 2xday but have cut that to 25 on the night dose and BP & HR has stayed same. Will cut AM dose to 25mg in a few days to see how that goes.

Cardiologist said (out of the blue) that if Plavix cost is a concern (it's not) I could cut that but if not should stay on a year so that sounds like a good excuse to cut the Plavix. Hallelujah. With the C, fish oil, and Nattokinase blood should be thin enough.

Have some peripheral issues but not too severe. Hands and arms fall asleep at night and sometimes tingle during day if I lean on them or have them in a position that restricts blood flow. It's another reason for taking the Nattokinase.

Thing is I feel great and am exercising 15 minutes on AM before work with either speed or strength intervals on exercycle and then 30-45 minutes using one of the other programs in computer. Levels are 05 and 06 for all exercise. Asthma doesn't hardly bother me at all anymore.

Back in Wisconsin I walked 4 miles every morning and lost 6 pounds even though I was eating more than I do here at home!

Guess I shouldn't complain.

[ofonorow]

What is your daily C intake - what has been your routine? And lysine?


With Lp(a) that high, you definitely want more C, more lysine and more proline.

[pigeonguy]

Owen,

I am taking HT in the AM and PM and have been taking 6G with 3.5G Lysine & 1G Proline at lunch.
Should be total 12G C, 9.1G Lysine, & 1.8G Proline.

Was also taking 1G tabs of C intermittently during day for probably another 4-6G of C per day bringing C to 16-18 G per day but had slacked off that before I had the the labs.

I'm hoping that knocking off the Zocor, adding the Ascorbine at lunch and taking 2G of chewable tabs will get the Lp(a) in check.

Still haven't found a conversion factor to find out what percentage of LDL the Lp(a) is as cholesterol is in mg/dL and Lp(a) is in nmol/L.

Wonder why the different units of measure? Relative amounts? Homocysteine in in umol/L so Lp(a) is an order of magnitude smaller. And dL for the cholesterol is a magnitude larger than the L for Lp(a) & homocysteine. Sure makes comparison for relative importnce harder. Or is that the intent?

[ofonorow]

In my experience, those amounts should be producing dramatic results. (Have we discussed your possible dental toxicity?)

According to the Pauling/Rath patent, serum Lp(a) ranges in humans a "1000 fold" Lets assume that you are among the top producers of Lp(a), then I say again, you want to keep taking the C/Lysine/Proline to "inactivate" the tendency of all that sticky Lp(a) to collect on your arterial wall. Even if you can't lower your body's production of Lp(a). (I have a pet theory that proline can signal the liver to produce less Lp(a), well, this speculation, not a theory.)

Re:

Wonder why the different units of measure? Relative amounts? Homocysteine in in umol/L so Lp(a) is an order of magnitude smaller. And dL for the cholesterol is a magnitude larger than the L for Lp(a) & homocysteine. Sure makes comparison for relative importnce harder. Or is that the intent?

Apparently much of the 1000-fold range is when Lp(a) is measured in mass, not particles. Some Lp(a) is very large, and this form is apparently not as dangerous as the smaller Lp(a). So if you have a measure of mass only, you might have a lot of mass, which looks dangerous when there is little danger.

The idea is to measure particles - nmol/liter. I guess this gives you a somewhat better idea, but it seems to exclude mass from the equation altogether.

I still like the VAP test from Atherotech. They solved the problem by giving Lp(a) mass/ weight in terms of an equivalent number of LDL cholesterol - which is an indirect measure of the number of particles. They also break the Lp(a) into 5 ranges, depending on mass, so you can get an idea of how dangerous your particular form of Lp(a) is.

[pigeonguy]

In my experience, those amounts should be producing dramatic results. (Have we discussed your possible dental toxicity?)

No and I do have at least one root canal done in the 90s. Not sure if there are any dentists in AZ that can do the "fix."

Right now I am just "chasing numbers" for Lp(a), Homocysteine, Triglycerides (although not that high - 113) and low HDL but feel great. Just walked up to one of our other buildings on Ft Huachuca and back feel good (95/61 /w HR 0f 65). Only half mile but 1 way is up hill.

According to the Pauling/Rath patent, serum Lp(a) ranges in humans a "1000 fold" Lets assume that you are among the top producers of Lp(a), then I say again, you want to keep taking the C/Lysine/Proline to "inactivate" the tendency of all that sticky Lp(a) to collect on your arterial wall. Even if you can't lower your body's production of Lp(a). (I have a pet theory that proline can signal the liver to produce less Lp(a), well, this speculation, not a theory.)

Yes, will continue protocol.

I did run out of additional Proline and the local health/vitamin store hadn't gotten any back in. Was up in Tucson yesterday and completely forgot to check some of the vitamin shops up there.

Apparently much of the 1000-fold range is when Lp(a) is measured in mass, not particles. Some Lp(a) is very large, and this form is apparently not as dangerous as the smaller Lp(a). So if you have a measure of mass only, you might have a lot of mass, which looks dangerous when there is little danger.

The idea is to measure particles - nmol/liter. I guess this gives you a somewhat better idea, but it seems to exclude mass from the equation altogether.

I still like the VAP test from Atherotech. They solved the problem by giving Lp(a) mass/ weight in terms of an equivalent number of LDL cholesterol - which is an indirect measure of the number of particles. They also break the Lp(a) into 5 ranges, depending on mass, so you can get an idea of how dangerous your particular form of Lp(a) is.

Thanks for the info on Lp(a). Our lab here is the guys you don't like - can't remember their name. How does one go about accessing the services of Atherotech? Are costs similar to the other guys? How would one take the blood sample and get it to them?

Thanks for all the info Owen,

[ofonorow]

http://atherotech.com/

I think it might be as low as $30 by now, but they will send you a kit, you
put the cold pack in the freezer and have a lab/hospital draw the blood
and spin it. There is a self-addressed FedEx mailing envelop (or used to be)
and you can use me as a physician if you can't find one locally. Send me a PM for details.