Serious Reactions to IVs

[ofonorow]

We have now had two reports, from different coasts, of a serious reaction using our sodium ascorbate (off label) for IVs, presumably self administered.

If anyone else has experienced an allergic reaction of any kind recently, please contact the Foundation.

First, I have not condoned self-mixing. We have posted Dr. Catchcart's video where he claims to have been free of problems mixing sodium ascorbate for IV in his practice.

He also claims that the 50/50 stock solution is germicidal and kills bacteria.

I tell people who I speak with that I recommend that they order their sodium ascorbate sterile from a compounding pharmacy. I specifically recommend a local compounder who mixes the sodium ascorbate correctly for intravenous infusion.

I have stopped my own vitamin C for 12 hours, and then consumed a very large amount of our sodium ascorbate orally - without any reaction.

In the fist case, on the west coast, I asked the women to do the same thing, and as far as I know there was no reaction to oral intake. (We thought we had deduced, until we heard of the second case, that "cheap plastic IV bags" purchased from Iran was a more likely explanation for these allergic reactions. I have a query in to the second individual asking about other possible factors in his case.)

In the meantime, we are stopping sales of our Sponsored DSM Quali-C sodium ascorbate.

We have sent jars to the bottler for analysis and testing.

Given water and other potential issues, if anyone has any idea what may be happening, I would appreciate their input..

[Johnwen]

Owen

Could you be more specific as to what kind of problem their having and their outcome and how long it took to correct??

I'm going to repeat myself!
Anytime you mix a dry compound with a liquid for I/V an inline I/V filter should be used. Even if the dry product is specfic for I/V use.

[ofonorow]

Dr. Levy gave the same specific advice. Why? What does the micro filter protect from?

Here is more from the East Coast.

The IV bags are plastic Baxter Sodium Chloride .09% bags, 500 ML that I got from [deleted]. I had no problem with the IV in 4 or so doses with the old formulation, but yes, had a significant reaction upon doing an IV with the new formulation which landed me in the hospital for a week. Of course there is no way to be 100% sure that it was the new formulation, but my reaction happened within minutes of starting the IV. I appreciate you contacting me. Have you talked to your supplier about the difference in the new formula vs. the old?

[ofonorow]

I understand your situation, as well as my own, but of course if there is something in the new formula that is causing adverse reactions, nobody should be using that formula IV. I think it's important to get to the bottom of whether there is something harmful in the formula.

Could you send 4 containers of the old orange-colored formula? I cannot chance using the new formula and having a similar reaction again. Obviously I don't want to have the same reaction with the old formula either, but would like to try a very small drip and if I get any type of reaction from the old formula, we can be sure that it was my reaction and not the new formula. Vitamin C IV is imperative to my recovery, but with my reaction to the new formula, I absolutely cannot risk using it again, and think that it needs to be fully vetted out to make sure that nobody else has to go through the same thing I did if there is something wrong with the formula.

I have been using Lypo-C, but simply don't get anywhere close to the same benefits from it... I wish I did.

I sincerely hope for both of our sakes that I had a uniquely heightened reaction if there is something wrong in the formula, and further, I hope that there is nothing wrong with the new formula at all, and I simply had a reaction to something else... but it seems quite likely that for me at least, I had a terrible reaction to the formula, one which I hadn't had to the old formula. I would appreciate you shipping 4 of the old formula, and I will see how it works out the second time around... if I have a bad reaction there too, then we've probably figured out the problem is in my body, not the formula. I trust that you guys are trying to do right by everyone and care about people getting better using vitamin C, and I will too protect people's right to Vitamin C.

A.

[ofonorow]

Another case, may or may not be related.

To whom it may concern;
My mother is a 68 years old patient with multiple myeloma. I'm treating her with sodium ascorbic IV 30 grams daily. I had noticed a decrease in her hemoglobin levels after each treatment. Can sodium ascorbic IV causes this decrease? I'm talking about a decrease of practically a gram of hemoglobin per week. Since December 2012 I had transfused her 12 times. However, her multiple myeloma condition its getting better. For instance, since January 2013 to March 2013 her IgG results had decrease from 4330 to 2154. Her Metabolic panel is stable and White cells and plate are fine. We suspected of a GI problem, but all the tests came out negatives. I would kindly appreciate your advice. This is very important to me.
Best regards;
Ms. N.S., M.A.

First, we do not condone the use of self mixed IVs.

The best approach, with a physician's prescription, is to purchase sterile sodium ascorbate ready for injection from a compounding pharmacy we can recommend.

$100 for 500 CC (250 CC sodium ascorbate) plus shipping.

I do suggest 5 Lypo-C (livonlabs.com) every day - as the results with or without IV have been startling.

Also make sure you augment the vitamin C with at least 600 mg of Alpha Lipoic Acid, but we are starting to get good reorts of cancer remissions when the Mataike Mushroom D'Fraction from Mushroom Wisdom is added. Together, vitamin C and D'Fraction, they may work in the body as well as the test tube!


Now besides the drop in hemoglobin - have you noticed any other issue?

[Johnwen]

What does the micro filter protect from?

Undiluted and foreign particles in the solution. Factory prepared solutions may goes as far as reverse osmosis filtering before sale.

I had noticed a decrease in her hemoglobin levels after each treatment. Can sodium ascorbic IV causes this decrease?

All I/V injections will cause a drop in hemo. Hydration of the circulatory system.
If the blood is drawn from the same arm as the I/V during the infussion it will be noticably lower.
Normal range for a female should be 11.5 - 15.0 g/dL Maybe as low as 9 during infusion.
Give at least 24 to 48 hours depending on her kidney funtion (GFR) to check also check HCT MCV and RDW at this time to see if there is a real problem. (anemia)
Since this not the proper thread I will only say as a general statement that adding a increased amount of K2 and vitamin A to her oral supplement regiment may also help!

[ofonorow]

More info regarding the recent reported reactions to sodium ascorbate mixed for IV per the instructions of the late Dr. Cathcart.

I just got off the phone with a rural (possibly Amish) doctor who for emergency reasons has been treating a patient by mixing our sodium ascorbate. He had the very same experience last October - large blotches that he called. "purpura." He told me that there are at least two kinds, one condition that causes of small red points, and the other, large red blotches. His patient last October experienced the large blotch "purpura" which they attributed to a massive "die off". They cut back, let the large red blotch pupura clear, and were able to resume the IVs, with only the "pin prick" purpura since.

The rural folks use a Ringers solution they obtain from a "midwifery" group in Oregon.

The woman on the west coast consulted an experienced rheumatogist who considered hers and her patients to be an allergic reaction. (And to my knowledge, so far, there hasn't been a bacteria found or a rise in White Blood Cell counts.)

I also shared what she told me that when they were using sterile water, that they had no reaction. The problem began after they switched to a Ringer's solution obtained over the Internet. she told me that they immediately felt bad as the Ringer's IV's began.

This naturopath's idea is that the sodium ascorbate is too strong, that it stimulates the immune system too much, leading either to this massive die off or to the allergic reaction.


We now have information that this kind of reaction is not isolated to a particular batch of sodium ascorbate. (I am surprised this hasn't been reported before, but part of it may be to the "strength" of the sodium ascorbate, what my alt. doc calls "hot C." The commercial (e.g. bioniche) is clear, relatively mild with few "herx" like reactions.

So good docs, why haven't these reactions - large skin blotches - been reported w/r to IVs?

Why would they appear after a ringers, but not after a sterile water IV?

So for future IVers, I think it might be wise to start slowly with sodium ascorbate, because it doesn't react as mildly as doctors may be used to.

Dr. Levy (and johnwen) recommend using a "microfilter" between the IV bag and the needle.

I think it is important to faithfully follow Dr. Cathcart's instructions by creating the 50/50 stock solution, because this is the concentration Dr. Catchart said was "germicidal."

[ofonorow]

Hi Owen,

I can literally say that after thousands of infusions to that many different patients with different clinical circumstances, I never witnessed such cutaneous reactions. Certainly, if something happens once or twice, any possible reaction is likely possible. However, this does sound like some sort of
contaminant reaction. We always used sterile water, never Ringer's, and we mixed the sodium ascorbate that we got from China. I don't know if there is some sort of unique Na ascorbate/Ringer's interaction or not. My suspicion would be the Ringer's was bad in some way, or we are dealing with a previously unnoticed reaction between the VC and the Ringer's components.

Best regards,

Dr. Levy

[Johnwen]

One of differences that I think would help is understanding Ringers I/v solution contains approx. 84 GRAMS of sodium bicarbonate per liter! Mixing this with Sodium Ascorbate would give a definite sodium overload.
Ringers lactate does not contain the bicarbonate but contains a sodium ion.
But probably would react with the SA.
Normal saline contains sodium chloride and mixing SA with this may raise the ph of the solution.
Here I Would suggest doing a ph test on the final mix before injecting it.

I would have to agree with Dr. Levy that Sterile Water would be the vehicle of choice as there would be nothing reacting or affecting the ph levels of the solution which will be stabile from the SA mixture.
PH test strips are dirt cheap insurance which you can get even at a pool supply store.
6.5 Is the target!
In fact I would test the solution Before and after the mix!!
Be Careful and thoughtful to what is put in your body!

[ofonorow]

[tjohnson_nb]

Is 'intelligent' spelled incorrectly on purpose?

[ofonorow]

Good question. Yes. Old company name was "intelisoft Multimedia". We stuck with the single l.