thanks alot sir
Just couple of questions.
Should I consult her cardiologist or with doctor who practices nutritional medicine as
Ron Kennedy, M.D
http://www.medical-library.net/vitamin_ ... sease.html said before giving her both supp?
Should I supplement with the above recommendation for vit c/lysin or should I purchase the cardio-c?
regards
SL
You said you live in India - correct. If vitamin C tablets and lysine tablets are available, you may begin following Linus Pauling's protocol immediately. The first step is to determine how much vitamin C the woman can tolerate. If it is less then 10,000 mg then you should consider liposomal. (But it is not clear to me this woman's arteries are clogged from what I've read).
Consulting a physician is your prerogative, but don't expect them to be trained or knowledgeable about the value of vitamin C and lysine. Know that neither nutrient has any known toxic oral dose and neither vitamin C or lysine (currently) requires a prescription.
The value of Cardio-C is convenience (a drink instead of 10 or 20 pills) and it contains proline, another potent Lp(a) binding inhibitor, not specifically recommended by Pauling, but recommended by his associate Mathias Rath, MD. But you can probably obtain the primary anti-CVD effect with pills.
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davids1 wrote:Hi Owen,
Question: Did Pauling specifically write that "Vitamin C by itself will not (always) resolve existing heart disease?" I would agree, if a person's GI tract is not healthy enough to ingest enough ascorbate, they probably will not be able to resolve it. But my view would be that if they persevere, they will eventually be able to ingest enough [daily] to resolve it [if they do not die first].
In the case you mentioned above [of the scientist], he could not resolve it with [a mere] 5 grams a day. Maybe his Bowel Tolerance, and therefore need, was 10 to 20 times that. He added 5 grams of lysine to his 5 grams of ascorbic acid daily, and resolved it. How do we know he would not have had just as good a result if he had upped his ascorbic acid intake to 10 grams per day? Perhaps the lysine is valuable because it allows a person to not have to raise their Bowel Tolerance [to ascorbic acid], and yet still be able to resolve their heart disease. And I would certainly agree, if that is the case, it would definitely make lysine a valuable supplement indeed.
Am I missing something here, i.e. it does not seem to me that the case for lysine's necessity is proven? Yes it clearly works, but is it proven/demonstrated anywhere, that ascorbic acid alone, at [daily] Bowel Tolerance doses, will not get the job done?
Just asking [and thinking out loud],
David
Great - I think we need to continue to discuss this periodically. It is important information - reversing heart disease, life saving.
Remember you David are a person who takes something like 100,000 mg of vitamin C daily - and to you, that is not a big deal.
We welcome your input, but remember, most people listen to the government. We are trying to encourage people that they should take 3,000 mg daily (our RDA), rather than 70 mg to 200 mg. And many people are unable to afford supplements, they are looking for value, etc. Okay, now to your questions/points.
Question: Did Pauling specifically write that "Vitamin C by itself will not (always) resolve existing heart disease?" I would agree, if a person's GI tract is not healthy enough to ingest enough ascorbate, they probably will not be able to resolve it. But my view would be that if they persevere, they will eventually be able to ingest enough [daily] to resolve it [if they do not die first]
Your postulate seems to be that some (high enough) intake of vitamin C will overcome existing heart disease.
Lets assume this is true for the sake of argument.
My father had something like 8 brothers and sisters and he and they ALL died of massive heart attacks. My father never caught a cold, but, he could not tolerate more than 200 mg of vitamin C in one day - otherwise he was on the pot all day. (I have pointed out many times the wide variance of bowel tolerance, even in the same family. I take around 15,000 to 20,000 mg daily. I have often wondered if liposomal vitamin C had existed, whether that would have provided him with the vitamin C need to resist cardiovascular disease - but otherwise, he could not tolerate.
I don't know the situation with the scientist, but getting a scientist to agree to take 5000 mg of vitamin C is quite an accomplishment!
Given the gas/diarrhea issues, I would not expect the idea of following in your footsteps to always be appealing.
I have also noticed that while the body requires enormous temporary resources of vitamin C (ascorbate) during infections the same requirements do not apply to chronic scurvy - commonly heart disease. Most people are protected by a "mere" 10,000 mg of vitamin C daily, so yes, it is possible the scientist was only taking about half of the vitamin C he required to overcome his condition.
But the effects of the addition of about 5 g of lysine is always astounding to me (especially after reading Dr. Levy's STOP AMERICA'S #1 KILLER. Yes Dr. Levy ties heart disease factors to vitamin C deficiency, but his description of the disease in the artery makes it seem impossible that 5 grams of lysine can reverse this condition in 30 days!)
Our walls are full of testimonials of people near death, out of medical options, who have tried Pauling's therapy - with lysine (and proline) - and recovered almost instantly.
So what Pauling said is on video and their unified theory paper, about heart disease being caused from a general lack of vitamin C, but yes, he did say to "reverse" heart disease, you need lysine.
In the case you mentioned above [of the scientist], he could not resolve it with [a mere] 5 grams a day. Maybe his Bowel Tolerance, and therefore need, was 10 to 20 times that. He added 5 grams of lysine to his 5 grams of ascorbic acid daily, and resolved it. How do we know he would not have had just as good a result if he had upped his ascorbic acid intake to 10 grams per day? Perhaps the lysine is valuable because it allows a person to not have to raise their Bowel Tolerance [to ascorbic acid], and yet still be able to resolve their heart disease. And I would certainly agree, if that is the case, it would definitely make lysine a valuable supplement indeed.
Am I missing something here, i.e. it does not seem to me that the case for lysine's necessity is proven? Yes it clearly works, but is it proven/demonstrated anywhere, that ascorbic acid alone, at [daily] Bowel Tolerance doses, will not get the job done?
Great question.
Remember my father - his bowel tolerance was 200 mg. He may have required another 9800 mg daily that HE COULD NOT TAKE.
My half-brother (Mike Till Sr) was almost as low - we think his tolerance may have been around 1000 mg - but he knew the value and tried to take a lot more - regardless of the diarrhea. When liposomal came into the picture, I thought this would save him.
Also, we make these "outrageous" recommendations here - very high amounts of vitamin C until diarrhea - but out in the real world, this advice is unlikely to be heeded without consent from a doctor...
And bowel tolerance - for stress and infection - does not seem to apply for chronic scurvy. Much lower dosages (usually much higher than people are taking) resolve chronic scurvy.