CARDIOVEG Dr Bujor therapy after heart attack

[caroline_v]

Hello,
I had heart problems for many years, I didn't take any treatment and all of this resulted in a heart attack. I had a hard time recovering...I spent a lot of time in the hospital.
the doctor who took care of me recommended a treatment called Cardioveg Dr Bujor as an alternative treatment, a supplement made from many herbs and natural things that also contain vitamin C, product recommended for heart disease, blood pressure, heart rhythm disorders...
All patients were given this therapy and recovered faster.
After leaving the hospital I didn't have any more of this product but I would have liked to continue
Has anyone else used it?

[pamojja]

This product seems to basically consist of 140 mg of red yeast rice and 10 mg of japonica extracts. Basically a cholesterol lowering herb, which as their pharmaceutical equivalent of a statin, would help about 1% of patients to reduce mortality, only. The other 99% don't have any benefit in 5 year mortality from it.

The remaining 280 mg are merely powders from 8 different plants. Those do have therapeutic effects, but as powder, each in grams ranges only. Therefore, those 8 other herbs are usually not taken as powder, but extracts with at least 1:4 concentration. 8 plants most of which, with at least 300 mg of extract, each.

Therefore, I consider this product merely a placebo.

It contains at the most 2-3 mg of vitamin C. So small amounts contribute to deficiency only. The recommended minimal dose of vitamin C is 6 to 18 grams a day. Grams, not milligrams.

Olive, Ashwagandha, Arjuna, Berries, all do assist high dose vitamin C therapy, but not in such ridiculous tiny or dry powder doses.

[caroline_v]

thank you for your point of view.
Placebo in no way being a product tested on me that gave positive results and helped me recover

[pamojja]

I didn't take any treatment and all of this resulted in a heart attack. I had a hard time recovering...I spent a lot of time in the hospital.

Placebo in no way being a product tested on me that gave positive results and helped me recover

About 90% of cardiac arrest patients recover with hospital care.
Without hospital care, about ~10% only.

You said you spent time in hospital care and needed much time to recover. Therefore, you fall in the difference between 90 and 10% which do recover with hospital care, compared without. The vast majority of still about 80% recovering with hospital care. Regardless of placebo or none.

Therefore, your recovery is much more likely due to long hospital care, than a red yeast rice extract, which at best has the exact same effects of cholesterol lowering statins. Which have been extensively studied and found to help only 1 in 83 patients taking it, not to die earlier within 5 years of usual study periods after a cardiac arrest.

[pamojja]

I try to explain as simple as possible:

A heart attack happens whenever a clot blocks coronary arteries, its blood supply. To the extent his happens, heart tissue remains to a certain extent scarred. You survived this otherwise often deathly event by hospital care. You recovered from that event only, but not from the disease what caused your heart attack.

The cause of heart attacks is arterial plaque, which can form those deathly clots. Which in turn was caused by injury to the innermost protective layer of cells in arteries (endothelium). This injury comes from decades of exposures to toxins (too many to mention).

The best available predictor for heart attack risk is, by measuring this plaque-buildup by Coronary Calcium Score (CAC, volumetric and by density). The higher the CAC score, the higher the likelihood for heart attacks. This score, once above zero, has a yearly growth-increase of about 30%. Even with the most extensive comprehensive life-style changes and supplementation, the best improvement most often achieved is merely a 0% increase per year. Statins don't decrease its growth-rate, therefore CAC-score isn't routinely measured.

For you, without knowledge of a CAC-score, which doesn't give symptoms until a heart attack, your risk of further heart attacks increases likewise. Since you already experienced an event caused by plaque-buildup. Only once you could prove to yourself your plaque buildup has stalled, you could call yourself indeed 'recovered'. Otherwise, you're just on the waiting list for a further event.

Because of the often rare availability to get a CAC-score, a CIMT (carotid intimal max. thickness) could serve as substitute measurement, done yearly. Again, surviving a heart attack without stalling the plaque-buildup isn't real recovery, but waiting for the next even more likely bad event.

In my complicated case with comorbid conditions (COPD, ME/CFS), it took 7 years of continuous efforts with life-style changes and comprehensive supplementation, until my CIMT declined. Though a walking-disability due to PAD, likewise caused by plaque-buildup, had already improved greatly with Linus Pauling's recommendations alone, it ceased completely after 7th year only.

[pamojja]

a supplement .. product recommended for heart disease, blood pressure, heart rhythm disorders...

Blood pressure and heart rhythm are more often measured by MDs, than heart disease risks (as explained above, possible only by CAC score, or less accurate with CIMT). Did you at least see this benefits in your own results?